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SarineLewis
All suggestions for fixing ds' sleep issues have backfired :(
January 21, 2013 at 4:48 AM
My 1 yr old ds used to be a great sleeper. We've coslept since birth. I can tell he is ready to stop, but won't. Here is what is going on:
He's become a super light sleeper. I move an inch and he wiggles.
During his nap he wakes up after only an hot searching for his bottle and/or rolling to his tummy. (In my arms lol)
He constantly wants his bottle until 2 am. As in, he wakes every 20 min to an hour looking for it.
Often he will be wide awake after only an hour or two (Goes to bed at 10) even though he is still tired
Lately he fights sleep with all he's got (the other night he stayed up til 2 screaming for two hours no matter what. Yeah, overtired)
As expected, he rolls around in bed making room for us slim to none (small bed)
His wake/nap/sleep times are over the place (I have a routine for putting him to sleep)
When we lay him in his crib he either wakes up every two hours (hubby lays him down) or wakes up instantly (I lay him down) and screams. He hates his crib
What I've tried:
Feed him more, later (yeah, then he won't take his bottle and can't fall asleep without it. Made him over tired) to try to get him to sleep longer
Lay him down as he is falling asleep, in a deep sleep, any stage of sleep. He still wakes up.
Hubby will do the Cio method, but I will not. I can't handle it.
He can't stand his arms wrapped up so swaddling is a no go.

If we had a bigger bed, I would keep cosleeping. Buuuut I'm also 37 weeks pregnant. I'm exhausted! He's been going through a ton of developmental milestones lately (started saying 3 words on Wednesday!!!) and I know that has something to do with his sleep habits. We've been trying to wean him for months.

I just don't know what to try now. He is becoming a night owl more and more. Only time he sleeps good is when I regretfully allow him to take an evening nap. Then he stays up til 1 or two.

Replies

  • decembercherish
    January 21, 2013 at 5:20 AM

    Have you tried a earlier nap time? The later the nap i find the longer my little one stays up. She was extra cranky yesterday and last night but did take a good nap on her own. We just had to move her to a toddler bed because she was climbing and started falling out of the crib. He is eventually going to wear himself out to the point of not being able to keep his eyes open. Also have you talked to your peditrician? Good luck Momma here is to wishing you and the little one a sleeping night. 

  • sarahsmommy508
    January 21, 2013 at 5:35 AM
    im in the same boat but my dd sleeps good, just cant get her in her crib:(
  • SarineLewis
    January 21, 2013 at 5:36 AM
    He managed to go down early the other day. When he wakes at ten regularly he won't take a nap until 2 or 3. Never thought to talk to the dr.
    Thanks!


    Quoting decembercherish:

    Have you tried a earlier nap time? The later the nap i find the longer my little one stays up. She was extra cranky yesterday and last night but did take a good nap on her own. We just had to move her to a toddler bed because she was climbing and started falling out of the crib. He is eventually going to wear himself out to the point of not being able to keep his eyes open. Also have you talked to your peditrician? Good luck Momma here is to wishing you and the little one a sleeping night. 


  • jhslove
    by jhslove
    January 21, 2013 at 5:37 AM

    From reading your post, it sounds like he's extremely overtired (no surprise) and has some sleep associations that are keeping him from being able to fall asleep by himself and put himself back to sleep when he wakes up.

    You talk about having tried a lot of different things, but have you tried any one thing consistently? Babies are creatures of habit--they like to know what's coming and when they don't, it freaks them out. That's why routine is so, so important for babies and toddlers.

    Would you mind sharing what your put-down routine is?

    Also, you mention that you and your husband are not on the same page when it comes to CIO. A lot of people think that CIO is just throwing the baby in his crib and letting him scream for hours, but it really isn't. There's a lot of preparation and groundwork that goes into it, and if you do it right it really shouldn't result in hours of crying. I might do some really in-depth research into it if I were you (start by reading Ferber's Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems and Weissbluth's Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child). Even if you still decide you don't want to do CIO, which is completely your choice, they're both very helpful for understanding the biology of baby sleep. But in this case, it really sounds like your son has a number of sleep associations that, combined with his extreme state of overtiredness, is keeping him from being able to sleep in a healthy, age-appropriate manner, and that can't be good for him. Or you! Once the new baby comes, you HAVE to be able to get some rest or you're going to go crazy.

  • SarineLewis
    January 21, 2013 at 5:48 AM
    I've been wondering that too. He never seems tired until after being awake for a long time. I've tried giving him earlier bed times (anywhere between 8&9:30) and he just wakes up an hour later and is wide awake til 1 or 2. He doesn't know how to self soothe.
    Duh! I always forget about consistency. I just don't know what to try though.
    Routine:
    Nap: cuddles, bottle, holding him while sitting on the couch. Easy breezy.
    Bed: daddy cuddles while I wash bottles, bottle while cuddles and singing.
    Or if he fights it I've got a playlist of church sideshow mvs on youtube. He's usually out before the 2nd song is done.
    Being pregnant I have a hard time handling any crying. I've tried compassionate Cio for a few nights in a row and didn't like it. I'm wondering if we should skip the crib and go to the toddler bed.
    What is age-appropriate sleep habits at his age? I don't even know.
    Crazy? Already there! I'm sooooo nervous for when Sarah comes! David's sleep habits get messed up so easily. Dh sleeps through him crying when he wakes up. I don't know how I will handle both!! I'm honestly scared of getting ppd again.


    Quoting jhslove:

    From reading your post, it sounds like he's extremely overtired (no surprise) and has some sleep associations that are keeping him from being able to fall asleep by himself and put himself back to sleep when he wakes up.

    You talk about having tried a lot of different things, but have you tried any one thing consistently? Babies are creatures of habit--they like to know what's coming and when they don't, it freaks them out. That's why routine is so, so important for babies and toddlers.

    Would you mind sharing what your put-down routine is?

    Also, you mention that you and your husband are not on the same page when it comes to CIO. A lot of people think that CIO is just throwing the baby in his crib and letting him scream for hours, but it really isn't. There's a lot of preparation and groundwork that goes into it, and if you do it right it really shouldn't result in hours of crying. I might do some really in-depth research into it if I were you (start by reading Ferber's Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems and Weissbluth's Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child). Even if you still decide you don't want to do CIO, which is completely your choice, they're both very helpful for understanding the biology of baby sleep. But in this case, it really sounds like your son has a number of sleep associations that, combined with his extreme state of overtiredness, is keeping him from being able to sleep in a healthy, age-appropriate manner, and that can't be good for him. Or you! Once the new baby comes, you HAVE to be able to get some rest or you're going to go crazy.


  • jhslove
    by jhslove
    January 21, 2013 at 6:16 AM

    Okay, here's what I might suggest (and keep in mind, I'm not a pediatrician or any kind of sleep expert, I just know what worked really well for my 15-month old):

    The purpose of the bedtime routine is for THAT to be the baby's sleep association. So you want to pick a few things--make it simple enough that you can repeat it every bedtime and nap, because consistency is the key--and do them in the same order every time. You don't want the baby to need anything that he can't do himself--the idea is for him to be able to put himself back to sleep when he wakes in the night. So the church slideshow, bottle, cuddling, etc. to fall asleep might be a problem if he NEEDS those things in order to go to sleep. You want his last memory before falling asleep to be of being in the crib, by himself, so that when he wakes in the middle of the night he's not freaked out that he's in a different situation than the last time he remembers. Before too long, the baby starts to associate xyz with sleep, and it actually MAKES him sleepy. Our routine is: pajamas/diaper (no pajamas at naptime), bottle (only at bedtime, not for naps), then a book, two songs, cuddles, and then into the crib while she's still awake. She also has a little duckie blanket that she sleeps with. We started this routine when she was a few months old, and it didn't take long at all for her to attach the association with sleep. By the time we actually did "CIO" (and I hesitate to call it that because there was actually very little crying involved) the bedtime routine itself was enough to make her sleepy--she'd start yawning and rubbing her eyes halfway through, even if she'd been playing just a minute before. (The Weissbluth book goes into greater detail on this. Seriously, read it--I'm a huge fan, in case you couldn't tell!) At this age, you want him to be sleeping 10-12 hours overnight in addition to one or two naps totaling 2-3 hours. Every baby is different, but this is what the typical baby needs--somewhere in that window. Also, the bedtime still strikes me as too late; most babies this age need a bedtime somewhere between 7:00 and 8:00. Again, every baby is different, but the thing is that our deepest, most restorative sleep is what we get before midnight. If the baby doesn't go to bed until 9, he's only getting three hours of that super-deep sleep, as opposed to if he goes to bed at 7 and he's getting five hours of super-deep sleep. I would really, truly recommend trying an earlier bedtime--you might have to do it gradually--and see if that helps him to be less overtired.

    The thing about CIO is that if you're going to do it, you can't "try it for a few nights". If you start it, you have to see it through to the end, or else you just end up teaching the baby that if he cries for X number of minutes, Mommy will come. That's why it's so important to plan it carefully and make sure you're both on the same page. I wouldn't recommend doing CIO now if you know he's in the middle of a bunch of milestones, but he's definitely old enough by this point and food shouldn't be attached to sleep, with the exception of a pre-bedtime feeding, which many one-year-old still get. But if he's getting enough to eat during the day, he should be able to sleep through the night without a feeding, which means that the bottle is a sleep association, not a physical need. I know that some one-year-olds still eat in the night, and in and of itself there's nothing wrong with that. If Mommy is okay with it, it's not bad on its own, but what I hear from you is that you'd really like him to not need a nighttime feeding anymore, let alone several, and I totally understand that.

    By your son's age, you can probably tell the difference between the "I really need you" cry and the "I'm just fussing or annoyed to be awake" cry. If it's the former, then go to him! But if he's just fussing or pissed off that he's in his crib, then let him work it out on his own.

    Also, there's a section in the Secrets of the Baby Whisperer book about helping older babies who, for whatever reason, hate the crib. I can't remember it all, but it's basically a gradual process. Expect it to take a couple of weeks, because it's actually a series of small steps and each one needs to be tackled on its own, and we never really had this problem with our girl so I haven't tried it myself, but it seems to make a lot of sense. It basically breaks down to helping the baby get used to his crib bit by bit. Another alternative might be to skip the crib and go to a "floor bed", which is basically just a mattress on the floor. My friend, who is very big in Montessori, actually never used cribs with any of her kids--they coslept until about a year and then went right to the floor bed. I don't know much about it, but you could probably Google it and get some good info.

    I hope this helps! It's really long, I know--sorry. Sleep deprivation is a nightmare--good luck!


    Quoting SarineLewis:

    I've been wondering that too. He never seems tired until after being awake for a long time. I've tried giving him earlier bed times (anywhere between 8&9:30) and he just wakes up an hour later and is wide awake til 1 or 2. He doesn't know how to self soothe.
    Duh! I always forget about consistency. I just don't know what to try though.
    Routine:
    Nap: cuddles, bottle, holding him while sitting on the couch. Easy breezy.
    Bed: daddy cuddles while I wash bottles, bottle while cuddles and singing.
    Or if he fights it I've got a playlist of church sideshow mvs on youtube. He's usually out before the 2nd song is done.
    Being pregnant I have a hard time handling any crying. I've tried compassionate Cio for a few nights in a row and didn't like it. I'm wondering if we should skip the crib and go to the toddler bed.
    What is age-appropriate sleep habits at his age? I don't even know.
    Crazy? Already there! I'm sooooo nervous for when Sarah comes! David's sleep habits get messed up so easily. Dh sleeps through him crying when he wakes up. I don't know how I will handle both!! I'm honestly scared of getting ppd again.


    Quoting jhslove:
  • Summerlion1123
    January 21, 2013 at 6:25 AM
    Sounds like he needs more consistency and routine to start. Get him up at the same time every morning and don't let him sleep late. Give him an early nap that is a certain amount of time. Give him a bed time routine and a certain time he goes to bed and isn't too late. Watch his cues and try not to let him get over tired. (Bath, teeth, jammies, story and snuggles, bed for a routine?)

    It also sounds like you are trying too many things. Research sleep habits and sleep training thoroughly, pick a method, and stick to it no matter how tough. You and your husband need to agree and work together.
  • SarineLewis
    January 22, 2013 at 2:02 AM
    So today I woke him up at 10, nap at noon. I let him sleep however long he wanted to. He slept just over an hour. Then he was still cranky. I gave him a banana and crackers. He wasn't interested much. He feel asleep (with help) at 2 and slept til 4. Is that a reasonable schedule?
    This evening around 7 he started getting cranky and sleepy. I decided to keep him up til 9 (as suggested by other moms) and now it's past 10 and he is still wired. Maybe he needs more than the 12 hours suggested? Or maybe it is because he didn't sleep well the first few hours last night.

    I'm a first time mom in case you can't tell. :)
    I just spoke to my hubby and we've decided to do some research. Also decided to get more serious about it all after Sarah is born. Should I change anything until then?

    Quoting Summerlion1123:

    Sounds like he needs more consistency and routine to start. Get him up at the same time every morning and don't let him sleep late. Give him an early nap that is a certain amount of time. Give him a bed time routine and a certain time he goes to bed and isn't too late. Watch his cues and try not to let him get over tired. (Bath, teeth, jammies, story and snuggles, bed for a routine?)



    It also sounds like you are trying too many things. Research sleep habits and sleep training thoroughly, pick a method, and stick to it no matter how tough. You and your husband need to agree and work together.



  • Summerlion1123
    January 22, 2013 at 3:57 AM
    First I'd have put him to bed at 7 when he showed signs of being tired. An over tired baby isn't going to be able to sleep. I'd also get up much earlier in the morning (as tempting as it is to sleep in ;) )

    Perhaps wake at 8, nap at 10 or 11 for an hour, another nap at 1 or 2 for an hour if he acts like he needs it, bed by 7-8. That's just my suggestion though. Sure hope things start to get easier :)


    Quoting SarineLewis:

    So today I woke him up at 10, nap at noon. I let him sleep however long he wanted to. He slept just over an hour. Then he was still cranky. I gave him a banana and crackers. He wasn't interested much. He feel asleep (with help) at 2 and slept til 4. Is that a reasonable schedule?
    This evening around 7 he started getting cranky and sleepy. I decided to keep him up til 9 (as suggested by other moms) and now it's past 10 and he is still wired. Maybe he needs more than the 12 hours suggested? Or maybe it is because he didn't sleep well the first few hours last night.

    I'm a first time mom in case you can't tell. :)

    I just spoke to my hubby and we've decided to do some research. Also decided to get more serious about it all after Sarah is born. Should I change anything until then?


    Quoting Summerlion1123:

    Sounds like he needs more consistency and routine to start. Get him up at the same time every morning and don't let him sleep late. Give him an early nap that is a certain amount of time. Give him a bed time routine and a certain time he goes to bed and isn't too late. Watch his cues and try not to let him get over tired. (Bath, teeth, jammies, story and snuggles, bed for a routine?)



    It also sounds like you are trying too many things. Research sleep habits and sleep training thoroughly, pick a method, and stick to it no matter how tough. You and your husband need to agree and work together.





  • briebaby123
    January 22, 2013 at 4:47 AM

    Nobody has suggested this, but COULD it be because of the new baby coming?!?
    When I was pregnant, my sisters kids went from hugging on me and loving me, to, when I was near my due date, my youngest niece actually hit my stomach and ignored me from then on out.
    Babies know and do things that we can't understand.
    I'm sure you have tons of things for the baby, talk about the baby, preparing for her, etc.
    Maybe he feels like he's getting "Kicked out" and "replaced" because she's coming and now he has to share and sleep in his own bed.
    Just a thought.  

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