Advice for Moms

clp0930
What can I do for dd?
by clp0930
January 9, 2013 at 4:56 PM

On friday my daughter is going to the pediatrician

While she is normal weight she spits up a lot, she gets the hiccups several times a day, and she is in general extremely fussy. DH and I think she has reflux, what can the pediatrician do for it? What can we do to help her?


I bf, we don't consume much dairy, but we eat a lot of S. Asian foods that a heavily spiced (turmeric, garam masala, lots of chilies)

Replies

  • imultracool
    January 14, 2013 at 7:20 PM
    I agree, sounds like reflux.
  • tossed
    by tossed
    January 14, 2013 at 7:23 PM

    One study said due to poor healthcare, h pylori, drinking water. Another indicated it was due to a lack of previous knowledge about what heartburn and GERD are. One said that in urban areas, it might be due to increased weight. NONE of the studies linked it to spices or a change or lack of spices. You suggested that Indians did not have an issue with GERD. Studies, few that they are, are suggesting that is not the case. Now, shove it all in your own face. 

    Quoting LindaClement:

    So, attributed to increase in westernized diets and lifestyles, or just an increase in diagnosis?

    Quoting tossed:


    Quoting LindaClement:

    I don't suppose it's worth mentioning the stats of people in, say, India?

    Part of the problem is what people mean when they say 'spice' and what 'spice' actually comprises.

    Cinnamon affects the gastric system in very, very different ways than ginger, cardamom, cumin, cayenne and black pepper.

    Quoting tossed:


    Quoting LindaClement:

    It can be ... depends on the kinds of spicy foods.

    Lots of spicy foods also happen to be extremely high in fat --much of the commercially-available Mexican, for example. Not a lot of the SE Asian super-hot food is high in fat, and the burn itself will have nothing to do with reflux.

    Peppermint oil (in fresh leaves or candies) is a more likely culprit than 'spice' as a general statement --because 'spice' includes a lot of foods that have been shown to settle stomachs and lower acid production. And peppermint (and a few other herbs) are natural anaesthetics which numb the haitus valve --making things a whole lot worse.

    Hiccoughs are not 'severe' by virtue of being 'often.'

    Quoting tossed:

    From personal experience...if I eat spicy food, my reflux will be 10 x worse. Also, reflux is diagnosed by a barium x ray or a ph probe...an endoscope is done AFTER the other tests are performed to see if there are additional issues involved.  Severe hiccups can be related to reflux and a hiatal hernia. 

    Quoting LindaClement:

    Spice has (contrary to a hundred and fifty years of belief-based advice) nothing at all to do with acid reflux (which is probably what your ped will 'diagnose' and prescribe a powerful drug to 'treat' without bothering to do the necessary biopsy to see if it's necessary).

    Lots of kids spit up a lot, and hiccoughs are normal in young babies. It probably has nothing at all to do with your diet.




    I have lived with reflux for over 40 years and have a son with severe reflux who has had to have 2 major surgeries as a result and who will still have to be on medication for the rest of his life. Let's just say that your comments have not been born out by a lifetime of living with the condition. This is a link to a good article on breastfed infants with reflux http://www.breastfeeding-problems.com/acid-reflux-in-babies.html


    Just for grins, I checked. In urban areas of India, the same prevalence of GERD is found.

    Prevalence of GERD in an urban adult population from northern India is 16.2% which is similar to other industrialized countries. from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21061110

    Some authors have found few population based studies on the prevalence of GERD, however, Wong, et al found that GERD rates are increasing in Asia. The study broke down geographic areas of the continent. I found Wong's explantion fascinating and it related to the Asian body and cells as to one reason GERD seemed to be under reported.

    Symptoms like gastro-esophageal regur­gitation disease (GERD) occur as com­monly in village people as in large towns and cities in India. These symptoms have been commonly termed as GERD and are treated as GERD.

    http://www.indianjmedsci.org/article.asp?issn=0019-5359;year=2002;volume=56;issue=8;spage=371;epage=372;aulast=Patel

    There are other reports on the increase in documented cases of GERD in India...researchers are just beginning to expore the subject. 



  • LindaClement
    January 14, 2013 at 9:15 PM

    H. Pylori is a bacteria that is easily treated. People in India (and most of the rest of the world) never drink water that has not been boiled. Few people anywhere in the world drink water at all.

    I find it hilarious to consider that a civilization that's 3000+ years old doesn't have sufficient self-awareness to know when they're suffering from heartburn... which does, rather, suggest that the problem is a new one.

    You claimed that 'spices' (without naming a single one) cause or exacerbate heartburn, and GERD. I refute it, primarily on the basis that 'spices' number in the hundreds, and you can't possibly mean all of them.

    Quoting tossed:

    One study said due to poor healthcare, h pylori, drinking water. Another indicated it was due to a lack of previous knowledge about what heartburn and GERD are. One said that in urban areas, it might be due to increased weight. NONE of the studies linked it to spices or a change or lack of spices. You suggested that Indians did not have an issue with GERD. Studies, few that they are, are suggesting that is not the case. Now, shove it all in your own face. 

    Quoting LindaClement:

    So, attributed to increase in westernized diets and lifestyles, or just an increase in diagnosis?

    Quoting tossed:


    Quoting LindaClement:

    I don't suppose it's worth mentioning the stats of people in, say, India?

    Part of the problem is what people mean when they say 'spice' and what 'spice' actually comprises.

    Cinnamon affects the gastric system in very, very different ways than ginger, cardamom, cumin, cayenne and black pepper.

    Quoting tossed:


    Quoting LindaClement:

    It can be ... depends on the kinds of spicy foods.

    Lots of spicy foods also happen to be extremely high in fat --much of the commercially-available Mexican, for example. Not a lot of the SE Asian super-hot food is high in fat, and the burn itself will have nothing to do with reflux.

    Peppermint oil (in fresh leaves or candies) is a more likely culprit than 'spice' as a general statement --because 'spice' includes a lot of foods that have been shown to settle stomachs and lower acid production. And peppermint (and a few other herbs) are natural anaesthetics which numb the haitus valve --making things a whole lot worse.

    Hiccoughs are not 'severe' by virtue of being 'often.'

    Quoting tossed:

    From personal experience...if I eat spicy food, my reflux will be 10 x worse. Also, reflux is diagnosed by a barium x ray or a ph probe...an endoscope is done AFTER the other tests are performed to see if there are additional issues involved.  Severe hiccups can be related to reflux and a hiatal hernia. 

    Quoting LindaClement:

    Spice has (contrary to a hundred and fifty years of belief-based advice) nothing at all to do with acid reflux (which is probably what your ped will 'diagnose' and prescribe a powerful drug to 'treat' without bothering to do the necessary biopsy to see if it's necessary).

    Lots of kids spit up a lot, and hiccoughs are normal in young babies. It probably has nothing at all to do with your diet.




    I have lived with reflux for over 40 years and have a son with severe reflux who has had to have 2 major surgeries as a result and who will still have to be on medication for the rest of his life. Let's just say that your comments have not been born out by a lifetime of living with the condition. This is a link to a good article on breastfed infants with reflux http://www.breastfeeding-problems.com/acid-reflux-in-babies.html


    Just for grins, I checked. In urban areas of India, the same prevalence of GERD is found.

    Prevalence of GERD in an urban adult population from northern India is 16.2% which is similar to other industrialized countries. from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21061110

    Some authors have found few population based studies on the prevalence of GERD, however, Wong, et al found that GERD rates are increasing in Asia. The study broke down geographic areas of the continent. I found Wong's explantion fascinating and it related to the Asian body and cells as to one reason GERD seemed to be under reported.

    Symptoms like gastro-esophageal regur­gitation disease (GERD) occur as com­monly in village people as in large towns and cities in India. These symptoms have been commonly termed as GERD and are treated as GERD.

    http://www.indianjmedsci.org/article.asp?issn=0019-5359;year=2002;volume=56;issue=8;spage=371;epage=372;aulast=Patel

    There are other reports on the increase in documented cases of GERD in India...researchers are just beginning to expore the subject. 




  • LindaClement
    January 14, 2013 at 9:18 PM

    The 'spices' that are very, very hot are peppers (vegetables) not spices at all.

    Quoting tossed:

    Well, since half of her family is from India, no. The spices are very, very hot. I don't care...this was a discussion of GERD. Something you obviously have a serious misunderstanding about. 

    Quoting LindaClement:

    I always have good days.

    I suggest you investigate the healthcare systems in India, where the maternal and infant mortality rates are lower than in the US.

    India is not Pakistan, a fact that I have no doubt your roommate will happily shout into your face in case you remain confused.

    Quoting tossed:


    Quoting LindaClement:

    I don't suppose it's worth mentioning the stats of people in, say, India?

    Part of the problem is what people mean when they say 'spice' and what 'spice' actually comprises.

    Cinnamon affects the gastric system in very, very different ways than ginger, cardamom, cumin, cayenne and black pepper.

    Quoting tossed:


    Quoting LindaClement:

    It can be ... depends on the kinds of spicy foods.

    Lots of spicy foods also happen to be extremely high in fat --much of the commercially-available Mexican, for example. Not a lot of the SE Asian super-hot food is high in fat, and the burn itself will have nothing to do with reflux.

    Peppermint oil (in fresh leaves or candies) is a more likely culprit than 'spice' as a general statement --because 'spice' includes a lot of foods that have been shown to settle stomachs and lower acid production. And peppermint (and a few other herbs) are natural anaesthetics which numb the haitus valve --making things a whole lot worse.

    Hiccoughs are not 'severe' by virtue of being 'often.'

    Quoting tossed:

    From personal experience...if I eat spicy food, my reflux will be 10 x worse. Also, reflux is diagnosed by a barium x ray or a ph probe...an endoscope is done AFTER the other tests are performed to see if there are additional issues involved.  Severe hiccups can be related to reflux and a hiatal hernia. 

    Quoting LindaClement:

    Spice has (contrary to a hundred and fifty years of belief-based advice) nothing at all to do with acid reflux (which is probably what your ped will 'diagnose' and prescribe a powerful drug to 'treat' without bothering to do the necessary biopsy to see if it's necessary).

    Lots of kids spit up a lot, and hiccoughs are normal in young babies. It probably has nothing at all to do with your diet.




    I have lived with reflux for over 40 years and have a son with severe reflux who has had to have 2 major surgeries as a result and who will still have to be on medication for the rest of his life. Let's just say that your comments have not been born out by a lifetime of living with the condition. This is a link to a good article on breastfed infants with reflux http://www.breastfeeding-problems.com/acid-reflux-in-babies.html


    Considering that many in India lack advanced (or even basic) healthcare, the stats would be irrelevant. I had a roommate who was from Pakistan and my sons have an entire section of the family that is Pakistani, so I am very aware of their cooking methods and ingredients. I will stick with the advice and information we have been given by our GIs and pedi GIs, one of whom is among 2 doctors certified in TX to deal with the level of reflux and motility issues my son faces. When I say severe reflux, I am talking about full reflux 30% of the time lasting for up to 45 minutes an episode even after his first nissen fundoplication. We have tried various medications, diet changes, physical changes, and surgeries. As a result of his lifetime of medical issues, my son is pursuing a career as a doctor. He is close to completing the first degree on his journey. As she has planned, the op should seek the advice of her doctor and, if deemed appropriate, see the appropriate pediatric specialist. My experience was that specialists associated with a major pediatric hospital are best. Have a good day.




  • tossed
    by tossed
    January 14, 2013 at 10:49 PM

    Quoting LindaClement:

    H. Pylori is a bacteria that is easily treated. People in India (and most of the rest of the world) never drink water that has not been boiled. Few people anywhere in the world drink water at all.

    I find it hilarious to consider that a civilization that's 3000+ years old doesn't have sufficient self-awareness to know when they're suffering from heartburn... which does, rather, suggest that the problem is a new one.

    You claimed that 'spices' (without naming a single one) cause or exacerbate heartburn, and GERD. I refute it, primarily on the basis that 'spices' number in the hundreds, and you can't possibly mean all of them.

    Quoting tossed:

    One study said due to poor healthcare, h pylori, drinking water. Another indicated it was due to a lack of previous knowledge about what heartburn and GERD are. One said that in urban areas, it might be due to increased weight. NONE of the studies linked it to spices or a change or lack of spices. You suggested that Indians did not have an issue with GERD. Studies, few that they are, are suggesting that is not the case. Now, shove it all in your own face. 

    Quoting LindaClement:

    So, attributed to increase in westernized diets and lifestyles, or just an increase in diagnosis?

    Quoting tossed:


    Quoting LindaClement:

    I don't suppose it's worth mentioning the stats of people in, say, India?

    Part of the problem is what people mean when they say 'spice' and what 'spice' actually comprises.

    Cinnamon affects the gastric system in very, very different ways than ginger, cardamom, cumin, cayenne and black pepper.

    Quoting tossed:


    Quoting LindaClement:

    It can be ... depends on the kinds of spicy foods.

    Lots of spicy foods also happen to be extremely high in fat --much of the commercially-available Mexican, for example. Not a lot of the SE Asian super-hot food is high in fat, and the burn itself will have nothing to do with reflux.

    Peppermint oil (in fresh leaves or candies) is a more likely culprit than 'spice' as a general statement --because 'spice' includes a lot of foods that have been shown to settle stomachs and lower acid production. And peppermint (and a few other herbs) are natural anaesthetics which numb the haitus valve --making things a whole lot worse.

    Hiccoughs are not 'severe' by virtue of being 'often.'

    Quoting tossed:

    From personal experience...if I eat spicy food, my reflux will be 10 x worse. Also, reflux is diagnosed by a barium x ray or a ph probe...an endoscope is done AFTER the other tests are performed to see if there are additional issues involved.  Severe hiccups can be related to reflux and a hiatal hernia. 

    Quoting LindaClement:

    Spice has (contrary to a hundred and fifty years of belief-based advice) nothing at all to do with acid reflux (which is probably what your ped will 'diagnose' and prescribe a powerful drug to 'treat' without bothering to do the necessary biopsy to see if it's necessary).

    Lots of kids spit up a lot, and hiccoughs are normal in young babies. It probably has nothing at all to do with your diet.




    I have lived with reflux for over 40 years and have a son with severe reflux who has had to have 2 major surgeries as a result and who will still have to be on medication for the rest of his life. Let's just say that your comments have not been born out by a lifetime of living with the condition. This is a link to a good article on breastfed infants with reflux http://www.breastfeeding-problems.com/acid-reflux-in-babies.html


    Just for grins, I checked. In urban areas of India, the same prevalence of GERD is found.

    Prevalence of GERD in an urban adult population from northern India is 16.2% which is similar to other industrialized countries. from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21061110

    Some authors have found few population based studies on the prevalence of GERD, however, Wong, et al found that GERD rates are increasing in Asia. The study broke down geographic areas of the continent. I found Wong's explantion fascinating and it related to the Asian body and cells as to one reason GERD seemed to be under reported.

    Symptoms like gastro-esophageal regur­gitation disease (GERD) occur as com­monly in village people as in large towns and cities in India. These symptoms have been commonly termed as GERD and are treated as GERD.

    http://www.indianjmedsci.org/article.asp?issn=0019-5359;year=2002;volume=56;issue=8;spage=371;epage=372;aulast=Patel

    There are other reports on the increase in documented cases of GERD in India...researchers are just beginning to expore the subject. 





    Read the studies. The studies mention hyplori...which does not always respond to treatment. I am dealing with it RIGHT NOW and the treatment is expensive and far from easy and does not always respond. READ the studies which talk about dirty water. You are talking out of your ass. You can have all the misplaced ideas you want...live in the dark. READ the studies. Done. You clearly do not want to pursue scientific evidence...The conclusion are not mine, but found in studies conducted in India. In terms of water...I can't begin to stress how stupid you feel. http://www.sa-lives.com/entry/44/dirty-water Go to the site to read about the horrible problem with dirty water and the countless diseases in their water supply. Another source estimates that India has people who die EVERY DAY from drinking dirty water. As for Indian spices, seems like the culinary world disagrees with you on that as well. 'http://www.indianfoodsite.com/spices.htm Done. You state opinions, I give you links to studies and experts. DONE!
  • tossed
    by tossed
    January 14, 2013 at 10:50 PM

    http://www.indianfoodsite.com/spices.htm

    Done.

    Quoting LindaClement:

    The 'spices' that are very, very hot are peppers (vegetables) not spices at all.

    Quoting tossed:

    Well, since half of her family is from India, no. The spices are very, very hot. I don't care...this was a discussion of GERD. Something you obviously have a serious misunderstanding about. 

    Quoting LindaClement:

    I always have good days.

    I suggest you investigate the healthcare systems in India, where the maternal and infant mortality rates are lower than in the US.

    India is not Pakistan, a fact that I have no doubt your roommate will happily shout into your face in case you remain confused.

    Quoting tossed:


    Quoting LindaClement:

    I don't suppose it's worth mentioning the stats of people in, say, India?

    Part of the problem is what people mean when they say 'spice' and what 'spice' actually comprises.

    Cinnamon affects the gastric system in very, very different ways than ginger, cardamom, cumin, cayenne and black pepper.

    Quoting tossed:


    Quoting LindaClement:

    It can be ... depends on the kinds of spicy foods.

    Lots of spicy foods also happen to be extremely high in fat --much of the commercially-available Mexican, for example. Not a lot of the SE Asian super-hot food is high in fat, and the burn itself will have nothing to do with reflux.

    Peppermint oil (in fresh leaves or candies) is a more likely culprit than 'spice' as a general statement --because 'spice' includes a lot of foods that have been shown to settle stomachs and lower acid production. And peppermint (and a few other herbs) are natural anaesthetics which numb the haitus valve --making things a whole lot worse.

    Hiccoughs are not 'severe' by virtue of being 'often.'

    Quoting tossed:

    From personal experience...if I eat spicy food, my reflux will be 10 x worse. Also, reflux is diagnosed by a barium x ray or a ph probe...an endoscope is done AFTER the other tests are performed to see if there are additional issues involved.  Severe hiccups can be related to reflux and a hiatal hernia. 

    Quoting LindaClement:

    Spice has (contrary to a hundred and fifty years of belief-based advice) nothing at all to do with acid reflux (which is probably what your ped will 'diagnose' and prescribe a powerful drug to 'treat' without bothering to do the necessary biopsy to see if it's necessary).

    Lots of kids spit up a lot, and hiccoughs are normal in young babies. It probably has nothing at all to do with your diet.




    I have lived with reflux for over 40 years and have a son with severe reflux who has had to have 2 major surgeries as a result and who will still have to be on medication for the rest of his life. Let's just say that your comments have not been born out by a lifetime of living with the condition. This is a link to a good article on breastfed infants with reflux http://www.breastfeeding-problems.com/acid-reflux-in-babies.html


    Considering that many in India lack advanced (or even basic) healthcare, the stats would be irrelevant. I had a roommate who was from Pakistan and my sons have an entire section of the family that is Pakistani, so I am very aware of their cooking methods and ingredients. I will stick with the advice and information we have been given by our GIs and pedi GIs, one of whom is among 2 doctors certified in TX to deal with the level of reflux and motility issues my son faces. When I say severe reflux, I am talking about full reflux 30% of the time lasting for up to 45 minutes an episode even after his first nissen fundoplication. We have tried various medications, diet changes, physical changes, and surgeries. As a result of his lifetime of medical issues, my son is pursuing a career as a doctor. He is close to completing the first degree on his journey. As she has planned, the op should seek the advice of her doctor and, if deemed appropriate, see the appropriate pediatric specialist. My experience was that specialists associated with a major pediatric hospital are best. Have a good day.





  • LindaClement
    January 15, 2013 at 1:33 PM

    So, your main point remains that 'spices' contribute to GERD?

    Quoting tossed:


    Quoting LindaClement:

    H. Pylori is a bacteria that is easily treated. People in India (and most of the rest of the world) never drink water that has not been boiled. Few people anywhere in the world drink water at all.

    I find it hilarious to consider that a civilization that's 3000+ years old doesn't have sufficient self-awareness to know when they're suffering from heartburn... which does, rather, suggest that the problem is a new one.

    You claimed that 'spices' (without naming a single one) cause or exacerbate heartburn, and GERD. I refute it, primarily on the basis that 'spices' number in the hundreds, and you can't possibly mean all of them.

    Quoting tossed:

    One study said due to poor healthcare, h pylori, drinking water. Another indicated it was due to a lack of previous knowledge about what heartburn and GERD are. One said that in urban areas, it might be due to increased weight. NONE of the studies linked it to spices or a change or lack of spices. You suggested that Indians did not have an issue with GERD. Studies, few that they are, are suggesting that is not the case. Now, shove it all in your own face. 

    Quoting LindaClement:

    So, attributed to increase in westernized diets and lifestyles, or just an increase in diagnosis?

    Quoting tossed:


    Quoting LindaClement:

    I don't suppose it's worth mentioning the stats of people in, say, India?

    Part of the problem is what people mean when they say 'spice' and what 'spice' actually comprises.

    Cinnamon affects the gastric system in very, very different ways than ginger, cardamom, cumin, cayenne and black pepper.

    Quoting tossed:


    Quoting LindaClement:

    It can be ... depends on the kinds of spicy foods.

    Lots of spicy foods also happen to be extremely high in fat --much of the commercially-available Mexican, for example. Not a lot of the SE Asian super-hot food is high in fat, and the burn itself will have nothing to do with reflux.

    Peppermint oil (in fresh leaves or candies) is a more likely culprit than 'spice' as a general statement --because 'spice' includes a lot of foods that have been shown to settle stomachs and lower acid production. And peppermint (and a few other herbs) are natural anaesthetics which numb the haitus valve --making things a whole lot worse.

    Hiccoughs are not 'severe' by virtue of being 'often.'

    Quoting tossed:

    From personal experience...if I eat spicy food, my reflux will be 10 x worse. Also, reflux is diagnosed by a barium x ray or a ph probe...an endoscope is done AFTER the other tests are performed to see if there are additional issues involved.  Severe hiccups can be related to reflux and a hiatal hernia. 

    Quoting LindaClement:

    Spice has (contrary to a hundred and fifty years of belief-based advice) nothing at all to do with acid reflux (which is probably what your ped will 'diagnose' and prescribe a powerful drug to 'treat' without bothering to do the necessary biopsy to see if it's necessary).

    Lots of kids spit up a lot, and hiccoughs are normal in young babies. It probably has nothing at all to do with your diet.




    I have lived with reflux for over 40 years and have a son with severe reflux who has had to have 2 major surgeries as a result and who will still have to be on medication for the rest of his life. Let's just say that your comments have not been born out by a lifetime of living with the condition. This is a link to a good article on breastfed infants with reflux http://www.breastfeeding-problems.com/acid-reflux-in-babies.html


    Just for grins, I checked. In urban areas of India, the same prevalence of GERD is found.

    Prevalence of GERD in an urban adult population from northern India is 16.2% which is similar to other industrialized countries. from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21061110

    Some authors have found few population based studies on the prevalence of GERD, however, Wong, et al found that GERD rates are increasing in Asia. The study broke down geographic areas of the continent. I found Wong's explantion fascinating and it related to the Asian body and cells as to one reason GERD seemed to be under reported.

    Symptoms like gastro-esophageal regur­gitation disease (GERD) occur as com­monly in village people as in large towns and cities in India. These symptoms have been commonly termed as GERD and are treated as GERD.

    http://www.indianjmedsci.org/article.asp?issn=0019-5359;year=2002;volume=56;issue=8;spage=371;epage=372;aulast=Patel

    There are other reports on the increase in documented cases of GERD in India...researchers are just beginning to expore the subject. 





    Read the studies. The studies mention hyplori...which does not always respond to treatment. I am dealing with it RIGHT NOW and the treatment is expensive and far from easy and does not always respond. READ the studies which talk about dirty water. You are talking out of your ass. You can have all the misplaced ideas you want...live in the dark. READ the studies. Done. You clearly do not want to pursue scientific evidence...The conclusion are not mine, but found in studies conducted in India. In terms of water...I can't begin to stress how stupid you feel. http://www.sa-lives.com/entry/44/dirty-water Go to the site to read about the horrible problem with dirty water and the countless diseases in their water supply. Another source estimates that India has people who die EVERY DAY from drinking dirty water. As for Indian spices, seems like the culinary world disagrees with you on that as well. 'http://www.indianfoodsite.com/spices.htm Done. You state opinions, I give you links to studies and experts. DONE!


Advice for Moms