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SuzieMoore
Nap Time?!
September 28, 2012 at 7:09 PM

Killian, is usually the happiest baby ever! ALWAYS smiling and watching things. Very smart and loving EXCEPT for when its nap time! As a baby, he slept through the night the first few nights after he was born and then ever since he would wake a couple times a night, give or take, to feed. And for naps during the day, it was a breeze honestly, like clock work. Normal, right? Well he's a year now and he still has the same sleeping patterns at night which is ok... however! Around 6 months or so, when we would try to put him down for naps during the day (started with naps every 2 hours or so and would sleep an hour and now we put him down every few hours or more... usually more and he'll sleep anywhere from 15 mins to 1 hour or sometimes almost 2) he would become literally violent i.e. kicking & screaming, thrusting himself backwards, arching his back, biting, and he will even go as far as pulling his own hair and scratching his face to keep himself awake and crying so hard he gags and throws everything up! And yes we trim his nails but he digs! I really don't know where this behavior comes from but I feel like we're doing something wrong... My husband is more stern about our son's nap time and if he starts rubbing his eyes or yawning then he will put him down as soon as the signs start to avoid Killian getting "over tired" ... although we've tried doing the opposite as well (letting him stay up til he drops.) But our son's loud and violent tantrums happen every time we try to put him down for a nap!

We have tried many alternatives such as letting him stay up but that only makes him very cranky & then nobody is happy...

We tried letting him cry it out and after 2 weeks  I couldn't stand to hear him cry anymore so we stopped... plus it wasn't working so no hard feelings about it...(I've heard that 2 weeks is the limit per attempt of the "cry it out" method and if the baby doesn't get used to it then try again at a later date.) We only made the one attempt.

We sing and rock and make funny faces, we hold him close and cuddle, rub his back, head, chest, dim the lights, etc...

We can be patient and try different things so we're open to solutions or suggestions. I'd rather be trying something new then not doing anything and having our little guy be unhappy when he should be looking forward to his little dreams <3

 

 

 

Replies

  • CoeyG
    by CoeyG
    October 13, 2012 at 8:33 PM

    He is giving up one of his naps.  My daughter quit napping altogether after her first birthday.  It was a trade off, she went to bed at 7:30.  Stop trying to force him to nap when he doesn't want to nap you are only making him frustrated and you are frustrating yourselves.  

  • SuzieMoore
    October 14, 2012 at 1:09 PM

     

    Quoting LindaClement:

    So, your argument is, in fact, 'no, I haven't read any research of any kind, so I know better than you do.'

    Good argument.

    I read sleep research today. The age of my children has nothing to do with any recorded sleep studies done in the last 5 years.

    You never say where your information comes from. 

    Quoting SuzieMoore:

     

    Quoting LindaClement:

    Have you read anything about the history of Western sleep advice?

    Have you read anything about sleep research?

    My 'credentials' are that I read research.

    I don't quote 'experts' who make claims today that were thoroughly refuted 60 or 80 years ago.

    Quoting SuzieMoore:

     

    Quoting LindaClement:

    Oh, to live in the tight little righteousness of a binary world.

    There is so much more than 'this or that.'

    I'm giving you information you clearly don't have. If you had it, you'd never have attempted CIO, or CC or any of the rest of the 'solutions' to reality that experts sell to tired parents looking for an easy answer.

    The 'answer' is 'human children have needs at night.'

    Any way of phrasing the question so 'there is a simple 2-step solution that will make it so children do not have needs in the night' is a faulty question, probably about Furbys, not humans.

    The way people used to 'make' children sleep through the night ranged from gassing them over the stove, through laudanum (opium dissolved in alcohol), a 'nightcap' and valium.

    You can't get anywhere near a 'solution' for reality. You can only solve problems. Reality is that children have needs in the night that they cannot meet on their own --because they're children. Trying to 'solve' that is like trying to alleviate gravity: mighty effort can go into it, but it's going to do a lot of damage to a lot of things while having absolutely no effect on the 'problem.'

    Quoting SuzieMoore:

     

    Quoting LindaClement:

    As you yourself said: it didn't work. For whatever problem it was supposed to 'fix' it failed.

    Kids object to being alone in a room. They object to feeling left out of the action. They lack the ability to control themselves and their environments, they are often frustrated by their inability to convey their needs effectively...

    Quoting SuzieMoore:

     

    Quoting LindaClement:

    The overwhelming environment could just be crying alone in the space for 2 weeks.

    The fact that you understand that the place is safe, because you understand about walls and windows and an absence of tigers and snakes doesn't transport that knowledge into a small child's head. They only have instincts.

    CIO can do a lot of things --teaching kids that their beds are not happy, calm places is among them.

    Quoting SuzieMoore:

     

    Quoting LindaClement:

    Where is the nap to take place? Can he sleep across your lap on the couch? It may be that the associations with the nap + the place creates a totally overwhelming collection of powerful emotions and fears in your little guy...

    In general, recommendations for healthy sleep insist that 'making the sleeping space peaceful and low-key' is vital. People can only fall asleep when they feel safe, and any associations with struggle or danger or fear will impede healthy sleep.

    Things like cry-it-out, for example.

     He ALWAYS sleeps in his crib for nap time but if he falls asleep on me or his dad then we will usually let him stay there for a while but then we will put him in his crib because if we dont he will wake up sooner and not have a long enough nap i.e. wake up crankier than when he fell asleep. As far as danger or overwhelming environments, we have none. We dont have any animals and our room is always clean and peaceful, he sleeps in our room. We dont have any rowdy neighbors and my husband and I dont scream and yell at eachother. We are very mellow people. Pretty much everything we have is to make Killians life better and more fun, seriously, he has more stuff than me and my husband combined! So I dont know what could be bothering him but it really bothers me that I cant seem to figure it out.


     Yes, that would make sense if he had started behaving this way after we tried CIO however, it started about 3 months prior. And as I said earlier, he wasn't "crying alone in a space for 2 weeks", thats not how CIO works... the particular method we used was a very gradual one.


     So are you making any suggestions or are you simply making judgements? It seems only the latter. Children don't like being alone but they are children... not adults... and just because they don't understand something which in turn makes them upset, does NOT mean you should give in to your child. It seems like your children must be very spoiled and have everything they want for the sake of them "not crying" and I think thats the farthest thing from learning to be emotionally healthy. Furthermore, I don't particularly appreciate your negative outlook. If you have a suggestion, which is what I asked for in the first post, then feel free... otherwise, please take your negativity elsewhere. I highly doubt you are professional enough to even pass such judgements.


    I'd like to know what your credentials are? Why would you give such a moronic and outdated example of people who force their children to do things with Valium and alcohol? There is nothing of the sort going on here so take your pointless rantings elsewhere.


    So you're saying you, in fact, DO NOT have any credentials? haha! Apparantly America didnt know what they were doing when they decided someone needed credentials in order to give such precise advice...but with the acception of Miss Linda of course because she "reads books"... HA! what a pompous outlook on life... Im assuming you're also taking into account that your daughters are full grown so CLEARLY theres no way your knowledge could be outdated... CLEARLY... i've already told you to take your pointless rambling elsewhere. I dont care how many important "stories" you think you've read or lived your life by.


    Well, I get all my information from my pediatrician... So ya, its a pretty good argument. And I've tried blocking you several times... Shoo Fly

  • SuzieMoore
    October 14, 2012 at 1:11 PM

     

    Quoting CoeyG:

    He is giving up one of his naps.  My daughter quit napping altogether after her first birthday.  It was a trade off, she went to bed at 7:30.  Stop trying to force him to nap when he doesn't want to nap you are only making him frustrated and you are frustrating yourselves

    We only put him down for 1 nap a day now and it's when he's pretty much passing out.

  • zannahdeux
    October 14, 2012 at 1:15 PM

    Can you create a routine for him right before nap time? Some kids get crazy because they are having fun and then bam it's nap time. Try laying down and reading a few stories or something you can do everyday so he knows..ok nap time is coming now. 

  • mammabear413
    October 14, 2012 at 4:06 PM

    my son is fighting naps now and i need him to so i can clean  or shower lol so i do car rides now its cold , tin summer i use to walk or put him in a swing 

  • LindaClement
    October 15, 2012 at 12:25 AM

    Have you asked your pediatrician when it was s/he changed fields from sleep researcher to infant-and-child-disease-diagnosis-and-treatment?

    Because sleep does not make it into the very-full syllabus for pediatricians, or any other specialist medical doctorate outside psychiatrists who specialize in it.

    Quoting SuzieMoore:

     

    Quoting LindaClement:

    So, your argument is, in fact, 'no, I haven't read any research of any kind, so I know better than you do.'

    Good argument.

    I read sleep research today. The age of my children has nothing to do with any recorded sleep studies done in the last 5 years.

    You never say where your information comes from. 

    Quoting SuzieMoore:

     

    Quoting LindaClement:

    Have you read anything about the history of Western sleep advice?

    Have you read anything about sleep research?

    My 'credentials' are that I read research.

    I don't quote 'experts' who make claims today that were thoroughly refuted 60 or 80 years ago.

    Quoting SuzieMoore:

     

    Quoting LindaClement:

    Oh, to live in the tight little righteousness of a binary world.

    There is so much more than 'this or that.'

    I'm giving you information you clearly don't have. If you had it, you'd never have attempted CIO, or CC or any of the rest of the 'solutions' to reality that experts sell to tired parents looking for an easy answer.

    The 'answer' is 'human children have needs at night.'

    Any way of phrasing the question so 'there is a simple 2-step solution that will make it so children do not have needs in the night' is a faulty question, probably about Furbys, not humans.

    The way people used to 'make' children sleep through the night ranged from gassing them over the stove, through laudanum (opium dissolved in alcohol), a 'nightcap' and valium.

    You can't get anywhere near a 'solution' for reality. You can only solve problems. Reality is that children have needs in the night that they cannot meet on their own --because they're children. Trying to 'solve' that is like trying to alleviate gravity: mighty effort can go into it, but it's going to do a lot of damage to a lot of things while having absolutely no effect on the 'problem.'

    Quoting SuzieMoore:

     

    Quoting LindaClement:

    As you yourself said: it didn't work. For whatever problem it was supposed to 'fix' it failed.

    Kids object to being alone in a room. They object to feeling left out of the action. They lack the ability to control themselves and their environments, they are often frustrated by their inability to convey their needs effectively...

    Quoting SuzieMoore:

     

    Quoting LindaClement:

    The overwhelming environment could just be crying alone in the space for 2 weeks.

    The fact that you understand that the place is safe, because you understand about walls and windows and an absence of tigers and snakes doesn't transport that knowledge into a small child's head. They only have instincts.

    CIO can do a lot of things --teaching kids that their beds are not happy, calm places is among them.

    Quoting SuzieMoore:

     

    Quoting LindaClement:

    Where is the nap to take place? Can he sleep across your lap on the couch? It may be that the associations with the nap + the place creates a totally overwhelming collection of powerful emotions and fears in your little guy...

    In general, recommendations for healthy sleep insist that 'making the sleeping space peaceful and low-key' is vital. People can only fall asleep when they feel safe, and any associations with struggle or danger or fear will impede healthy sleep.

    Things like cry-it-out, for example.

     He ALWAYS sleeps in his crib for nap time but if he falls asleep on me or his dad then we will usually let him stay there for a while but then we will put him in his crib because if we dont he will wake up sooner and not have a long enough nap i.e. wake up crankier than when he fell asleep. As far as danger or overwhelming environments, we have none. We dont have any animals and our room is always clean and peaceful, he sleeps in our room. We dont have any rowdy neighbors and my husband and I dont scream and yell at eachother. We are very mellow people. Pretty much everything we have is to make Killians life better and more fun, seriously, he has more stuff than me and my husband combined! So I dont know what could be bothering him but it really bothers me that I cant seem to figure it out.


     Yes, that would make sense if he had started behaving this way after we tried CIO however, it started about 3 months prior. And as I said earlier, he wasn't "crying alone in a space for 2 weeks", thats not how CIO works... the particular method we used was a very gradual one.


     So are you making any suggestions or are you simply making judgements? It seems only the latter. Children don't like being alone but they are children... not adults... and just because they don't understand something which in turn makes them upset, does NOT mean you should give in to your child. It seems like your children must be very spoiled and have everything they want for the sake of them "not crying" and I think thats the farthest thing from learning to be emotionally healthy. Furthermore, I don't particularly appreciate your negative outlook. If you have a suggestion, which is what I asked for in the first post, then feel free... otherwise, please take your negativity elsewhere. I highly doubt you are professional enough to even pass such judgements.


    I'd like to know what your credentials are? Why would you give such a moronic and outdated example of people who force their children to do things with Valium and alcohol? There is nothing of the sort going on here so take your pointless rantings elsewhere.


    So you're saying you, in fact, DO NOT have any credentials? haha! Apparantly America didnt know what they were doing when they decided someone needed credentials in order to give such precise advice...but with the acception of Miss Linda of course because she "reads books"... HA! what a pompous outlook on life... Im assuming you're also taking into account that your daughters are full grown so CLEARLY theres no way your knowledge could be outdated... CLEARLY... i've already told you to take your pointless rambling elsewhere. I dont care how many important "stories" you think you've read or lived your life by.


    Well, I get all my information from my pediatrician... So ya, its a pretty good argument. And I've tried blocking you several times... Shoo Fly


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