I've been reading so many downright disgusting comments about women and rape now that it has once again made international headlines (India, Ohio, etc. etc.)
I wrote up a blog expressing some thoughts, but here was a key point that I wanted to discuss-
People, so many people- are jumping at the bit, justifying rape at the expense of the victim.
She didn’t say no soon enough. She was a tease. She dressed a certain way. She hung out in the wrong venue. She put herself in a bad position (drinking, drugs).
Here’s the thing I’m hearing here:
Women are walking around, available to screw any time a guy wants to. UNLESS she says no."
Do you agree with that conclusion? That some people seem to think that sex is okay-expected- unless they object (soon enough), vs. sex isn't expected, deserved, etc UNLESS she consents? What do you feel is causing statements like the above examples to be made?
It is entirely possible for a girl to not be thinking of sex when offering to let someone sleep beside her. The guy still needs to make sure
Oh good lord, you'd think this wasn't a first world nation!
It is sixteen in many state and a few are 14. which I highly disagree with.
Statutory rape is rape. Adults must protect children, not have sex with them. I thought 18 was the standard age for consent. If, in that state, 17 is legal then no...not heinous
The fact that she is 17 makes it heinous to you? Really? That really is not what I would call heinous. 17 is legal in most states and sorry, but their was clearly a signal sent there when she lets him sleep in her bed. At least he stopped. Now if you said 7 and he forced himself on her, then I could certainly agree.
My husband would like me to dress way more sexy than I normally do. I'm a jeans, t-shirt and flip flops kind of gal, thats my daily dress. He's constantly bugging me to put on things that are shorter, tighter and more revealing because he loves my body and he can't figure out why on earth I wouldn't want to show it off. He was in Las Vegas for three weeks on a military exercise and called me one day to ask my size because he was shopping for me. Guess what he picked out? A completely see-through deep v-neck top and a freaking mini-tube dress with these like blue vinyl strappy things all over the front. It's so short I can't bend over in it, if I pulled it down to bend over, my nips would completely slip. I asked him, seriously, under what circumstance I would ever put my 36 year old ass into a blue vinyl tube dress, and where would I ever possibly wear it to? His response, "Well, I thought you could wear it if we went out to dinner at a nice place." *Facepalm* He says he loves me and thinks I'm incredibly hot and wants to show me off. I'm not exactly comfortable with that. If people go out sometimes, especially to clubs, and they see women that are dressed rather provacatively, perhaps they aren't out trolling for random dick, maybe they are dressed that way because their spouse or s/o asked them to dress in that fashion. Just another thing to think about here I guess.
Everywhere I read and me. I've talked to have said they want girls to wear heels and tht they like the color "red" on women.
And some men have said they like the girls to look stylish
I have learned the hard way that men find us attractive regardless (not all though). I have had many male friends say that sweatpants are hot. Old tshirts are hot. Unkempt hair is hot. So finally I asked "so it's women in general who are hot?" I got a resounding yes. So now I dress for me, so that I feel attractive for myself, not anyone else. Regardless, people will always react differently and most men would be more than willing to do me since I am biologically female. For too many, that's really the only necessity. Doesn't matter what she looks like.
We are told to look a certain way "for men" by our media/society in order to sell stuff. It's been that way for as long as business has been around or if anyone had any kind of interest in trading something that's considered attractive. It's part of who we are as a species. However, vast majority of the time, at least in regards to most men, we don't need any of that. Hence why rape has nothing to do with what a woman is wearing and everything to do with the fact that she's female and perceived to be vulnerable. A rapist will pick out who he thinks will be the easiest target. Drunk women too often are the targets because of that vulnerability, doesn't matter what they are wearing.
That's another reason people need to stop victim blaming. Men will signals where there aren't any.
I remember some awkward emails from a man to his dates that went around a little while back where he was confused that tey didnt want a second date because he had seen then "playing with their hair." And he had read that girls play with their hair when they like a guy.
There was a post here in cm where a woman was posting about her teenage sister who she had sent to the nextdoor neighbors house (don't remember why) and the neighbor didnt try to rape her, but he tried to initiate sex because she was wearing an oversize tee shirt that day, and because she felt self conscious thinking it looked like she wasnt wearing shorts, the pulled the shirt up some to make the shorts visible and HE thought she was showing him her ass.
And we've all tried to attract men in our lives. Whether it was more subtle with makeup or stronger with short skirts, we've all tried to be sexy, but that didnt mean we were inviting any guy to have sex. We just wanted to turn heads or get someone to find us attractive
I think it's insane that he would think that just because she's 17 and he's 22 that she would want to screw him simply based on that. "What 17 year old wouldn't want to get with a 22 year old?" That is mind boggling to me. What kind of person justifies that?
This is what I was talking about earlier- about mixed signals. They do happen. However, clearly- despite all "the signals" that he was picking up- she was displaying others that he began to push aside, justifying his actions based on what he *thought* (or wanted to think) were yes's.
This is what I think a lot of us were getting at. When a girl is squirming- that's a signal NOT to push ahead. To check and make sure that things are consensual.
Thankfully, he was able to eventually see without a doubt that she was saying NO. And, he didn't rape her. But, he almost did.
The flirting, the wrestling- what they meant (if they were yes's) are immediatly voided when she says no. You don't get to not stop when she's saying stop, even if she said Go! Go! Go! Earlier- plain as day.
This is interesting. I'm glad he stopped himself. This is what SHOULD happen in these situations. Control yourself. And the fact that she was 17, he had no business being around her.
My partner has this funny quirk. His mind does not comprehend women if they don't look over 18 to him. One time I walked through the mall with him and this one girl had on the cutest outfit I had ever seen. It was bright and outlandish. I love that kind of thing. He did not see her even though she might as well have been wearing bells and whistles. When I pointed her out and he did a double and was like "ok". I asked him why he didn't notice her. He said that he honestly does not compute women who don't look like they are over 18. He won't even go there, won't look at them. That's how ingrained it is in some men (not all tragically). I don't know if I'm explaining this well. Let me know if you understand.
I'm really glad he walked away but it never should have gone that far to begin with.
Cutting and pasting 2 replies from the Reddit link where men who've raped desribe their experiences. Now this first one...as far as I'm concerned the fact that she's 17 makes it heinous even if she had wanted it. Adults must not take advantage of children. Period. But this same scenario surely plays out between adults all the time. Only serendipity made him realize what was happening. I can't help but feel horrible for both male and female:
It happened when I was maybe 22. I had been visiting a buddy of mine who was living in a basement apartment in a college town. Upstairs lived a single dad and his teenage daughter. The dad worked nights if I recall.
So I show up to my buddies place, and we're having fun day hanging out, pre-drinking before we hit the bars that night. It was summer. The girl from upstairs had a couple friends over. I can't remember how it happened, but me and the girl (she was maybe 17) ended up play wrestling with me pinning her down. We were all laughing, but we when made eye contact...it was "that" look we exchanged. The.."I'd fuck you" look. I immediatly got up and later me and my buddie went to the bar. The night would have gone like any other, drinking, dancing, hitting on women. I remember getting back to the house, and my buddy led me into the girls room. He asked her if I could crash in her room. I was kinda astounded actually that she said yes.
I think thats when in my drunken mind I thought that she MUST have wanted it.
I was on one side of the bed, clumsily trying to play footsie with her. She seemed kinda nervous, but at the same time I remember she was saying provocative things. At some point I just said screw it and climbed on top of her and tried to kiss her. She tried to squirm away.
Now, I remember exactly what I was thinking at the time. This girl gave me "the look" earlier, she invited me into her bed. What teenage girl would pass up the oppertunity to be with a 22 year old guy? She MUST want it. I tried again, and slid my hands over her body.
It was then I looked at her face. She was petrified. I at that point pulled myself together, rolled off her and apologized. My hormones were RAGING. I asked her why she didn't want to. I told her what I thought above. She started to cry.
I got up, apologized again and went to the couch and spent the night staring at the ceiling thinking I was going to go to jail.
My buddy got up and we went for breakfast. When we got back, one the girls friends was there and demanded to speak to me outside. She quietly told me that her friend said I tried to rape her. She wanted to hear my side, since the day before I seemed like such a funny/sweet guy. I told her the story. She looked at me with a disgust I'll never forget and said that I may not have been an actual rapist...but I was as close to one as you could get. I wanted to apologise again, but her friend said it best that I just leave. I got in my car and left right away.
That was the lowest I've ever felt in my life.
I agree. He had no business being around her.
She, however, had no business being around him either.