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Hippie.Gypsy
Obama Waives Bush Law Banning Child Soldiers
February 9, 2013 at 10:58 AM

Obama Waives Bush Law Banning Child Soldiers

Friday, 8 February 2013

Here’s a headline we’ll guarantee you simply won’t find in the mainstream media –

On October 3, 2008, President George W. Bush signed into law “Child Soldiers Prevention Act of 2008,” a law that made it a federal crime to recruit or use soldiers under the age of 15. The law also gave the United States authority to “prosecute, deport or deny entry to individuals who have knowingly recruited children as soldiers.”

Link

Replies

  • frogbender
    February 9, 2013 at 3:21 PM

    Considering that this particular little article from the site is unreliable and out of context, credibility of the site seems to be on par with a tabloid paper.

    Quoting Hippie.Gypsy:

    You highlighted the point... YOUR (the peoples) truth... opinions or not, its coming from something other than MSM... and they do use MSM sites on the website as well. MSM does a lot of repeat from one to the next, and a lot of censoring, and editing...when you want the truth you need to talk to people who are on the ground or go there yourself, I think that is what the introduction is getting at (get people in the middle of it all to stand up and speak, give them a voice, etc...).

    One of the members there, I think they are a moderator, has written articles as well.

    You cannot build up credibility by solely showing one side of things ALL the time. You have to bring in different view points and different people from around the world. The truth is subjective, the truth can change from one witness to another who had different view points of the situation...one saw it from the start and saw such and such happen, while the other didn't see the start of it but also saw such and such happen, therefor both their views (opinions if you want to call it that) of the same incident will not be identical, but they are both the truth.

    Just saying, not trying to start a debate or argument or anything.

    Quoting frogbender:

    And LMFAO at the site that this "article" came from! It helps if news actually comes from credible sites, not ones that are, for all intensive purposes, opinions.


    Quote:

    Hello and welcome to Truth Zone - A place where you can speak your truth, freely and openly, within a community of people who will accept you for who you are and how you treat others rather than just on the basis of your beliefs and opinions alone. This is an open-minded place.



  • momtimesx4
    February 9, 2013 at 3:21 PM

    either way, it will be blamed on Bush

  • Hippie.Gypsy
    February 9, 2013 at 3:25 PM

    Hey! I like getting my information from tabloids, at least it has some funny shit in it lmao...whereas I pick up a newspaper and its boring, same shit different day kind of thing.

    Check outside links then, google for example... if you question something, dig to the bottom of it and don't stop until you find something that puts it all together for you. I don't expect others to do all my work for me, just get me on the road and point me in a direction. Nothing, no matter where it comes from, should be taken at face value...that's like asking to be spoonfed bad information.

    I think there have a been a few ladies here provide links already to back the article, at least part of it... and the site, truth zone, only linked it from another site in the headlines. It's not like they wrote it.

    Quoting frogbender:

    Considering that this particular little article from the site is unreliable and out of context, credibility of the site seems to be on par with a tabloid paper.

    Quoting Hippie.Gypsy:

    You highlighted the point... YOUR (the peoples) truth... opinions or not, its coming from something other than MSM... and they do use MSM sites on the website as well. MSM does a lot of repeat from one to the next, and a lot of censoring, and editing...when you want the truth you need to talk to people who are on the ground or go there yourself, I think that is what the introduction is getting at (get people in the middle of it all to stand up and speak, give them a voice, etc...).

    One of the members there, I think they are a moderator, has written articles as well.

    You cannot build up credibility by solely showing one side of things ALL the time. You have to bring in different view points and different people from around the world. The truth is subjective, the truth can change from one witness to another who had different view points of the situation...one saw it from the start and saw such and such happen, while the other didn't see the start of it but also saw such and such happen, therefor both their views (opinions if you want to call it that) of the same incident will not be identical, but they are both the truth.

    Just saying, not trying to start a debate or argument or anything.

    Quoting frogbender:

    And LMFAO at the site that this "article" came from! It helps if news actually comes from credible sites, not ones that are, for all intensive purposes, opinions.


    Quote:

    Hello and welcome to Truth Zone - A place where you can speak your truth, freely and openly, within a community of people who will accept you for who you are and how you treat others rather than just on the basis of your beliefs and opinions alone. This is an open-minded place.




  • Hippie.Gypsy
    February 9, 2013 at 3:26 PM

    Isn't it all blamed on him? Hehe, poor guy never gets a break.

    Quoting momtimesx4:

    either way, it will be blamed on Bush


  • yourspecialkid
    February 9, 2013 at 4:31 PM

     

    Quoting stacymomof2:

    That isn't what he changed.  He is sending money to these countries and so used this order to nullify the sanctions against them.  

    The reason is that he wants to protect us interests and security by sending these people money.  If there are sanctions he can't.

    He is basically taking away the sanctions in Yemen, Libya, and South Sudan, so he can send them money.

    Quoting yourspecialkid:

     Before Obama gutted the law these people would not be able to come to the US without facing criminal charges.  It helped to prevent us from being a safe haven for them.

    I can think of NO good reason for him to touch the law.


     You should have looked deeper.  I heard about it on the radio.  A lady from some human rights group was talking about it.  I easily googled it up.

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2442

    USCTitle 18Part IChapter 118 › § 2442

    18 USC § 2442 - Recruitment or use of child soldiers

    USCPrelim is a preliminary release and may be subject to further revision before it is released again as a final version.

    Current through Pub. L. 112-283. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)

    (a) Offense.- Whoever knowingly-
    (1) recruits, enlists, or conscripts a person to serve while such person is under 15 years of age in an armed force or group; or
    (2) uses a person under 15 years of age to participate actively in hostilities;
    knowing such person is under 15 years of age, shall be punished as provided in subsection (b).
    (b) Penalty.- Whoever violates, or attempts or conspires to violate, subsection (a) shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both and, if death of any person results, shall be fined under this title and imprisoned for any term of years or for life.
    (c) Jurisdiction.- There is jurisdiction over an offense described in subsection (a), and any attempt or conspiracy to commit such offense, if-
    (1) the alleged offender is a national of the United States (as defined in section 101(a)(22) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(22))) or an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence in the United States (as defined in section 101(a)(20) of such Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(20));  [1]  
    (2) the alleged offender is a stateless person whose habitual residence is in the United States;
    (3) the alleged offender is present in the United States, irrespective of the nationality of the alleged offender; or
    (4) the offense occurs in whole or in part within the United States.
    (d) Definitions.- In this section:
    (1) Participate actively in hostilities.- The term "participate actively in hostilities" means taking part in-
    (A) combat or military activities related to combat, including sabotage and serving as a decoy, a courier, or at a military checkpoint; or
    (B) direct support functions related to combat, including transporting supplies or providing other services.
    (2) Armed force or group.- The term "armed force or group" means any army, militia, or other military organization, whether or not it is state-sponsored, excluding any group assembled solely for nonviolent political association.

  • lga1965
    by lga1965
    February 9, 2013 at 4:50 PM

     What about getting the facts right?

    Quoting Hippie.Gypsy:

    You highlighted the point... YOUR (the peoples) truth... opinions or not, its coming from something other than MSM... and they do use MSM sites on the website as well. MSM does a lot of repeat from one to the next, and a lot of censoring, and editing...when you want the truth you need to talk to people who are on the ground or go there yourself, I think that is what the introduction is getting at (get people in the middle of it all to stand up and speak, give them a voice, etc...).

    One of the members there, I think they are a moderator, has written articles as well.

    You cannot build up credibility by solely showing one side of things ALL the time. You have to bring in different view points and different people from around the world. The truth is subjective, the truth can change from one witness to another who had different view points of the situation...one saw it from the start and saw such and such happen, while the other didn't see the start of it but also saw such and such happen, therefor both their views (opinions if you want to call it that) of the same incident will not be identical, but they are both the truth.

    Just saying, not trying to start a debate or argument or anything.

    Quoting frogbender:

    And LMFAO at the site that this "article" came from! It helps if news actually comes from credible sites, not ones that are, for all intensive purposes, opinions.

     

    Quote:

    Hello and welcome to Truth Zone - A place where you can speak your truth, freely and openly, within a community of people who will accept you for who you are and how you treat others rather than just on the basis of your beliefs and opinions alone. This is an open-minded place.

     

  • lga1965
    by lga1965
    February 9, 2013 at 4:54 PM

     

    Quoting momtimesx4:

    either way, it will be blamed on Bush

     Why would it be blamed on BUSH when two Senators were the ones who created this law in 2008 and now Obama is being blamed for trying to "wave it", which he really isn't doing. Bush shouldn't even be mentioned here.The OP's title says "Bush Law" but he didn't create it, he only signed it.He probably didn't even read it. LOL.

  • stacymomof2
    February 9, 2013 at 5:11 PM

    Did you read the actual order that Obama wrote?  That may be what the law is about but the part that Obama wrote the order about is the sanctions, specifically.  Meaning, yes, it is the money.  Go look up what Obama did and what he wrote (I posted the memorandum in this thread.)

    And yes, human rights organizations are decrying it.  And I have to say I agree.  But defining the law isn't the same as proving Obama is not enforcing it.   Whoever you heard on the radio isn't telling the whole story, which is readily available from even the "mainstream media" due to the UN speaking out about it.

    Tens of millions of dollars of U.S. military financing will continue to flow to Yemen and three other countries that recruit and use child soldiers, despite a 2008 U.S. law designed to restrict U.S. taxpayer funding of foreign militaries that enlist children to fight in war.

    The White House issued a memorandum Tuesday evening to allow military funding to Yemen, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, and Chad, three of the six countries on the State Department's list of foreign governments that recruit and use child soldiers in state-backed armed forces and militias.

    Human rights advocates say the presidential waivers, issued for a second year in a row, undermine the intentions of Congress.

    "The law could be very effective if it was applied the way Congress intended, but instead the administration has chosen to disregard the law and exert poor leadership on this issue," said Jo Becker, advocacy director of Human Rights Watch's Children's Rights Division. "Last year, the administration said they were putting governments on notice and giving them time to address the problem, but this year governments that have shown no progress are still getting assistance no strings attached." http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/obama-waives-child-soldier-ban-yemen-congo/story?id=14663930






    Quoting yourspecialkid:

     

    Quoting stacymomof2:

    That isn't what he changed.  He is sending money to these countries and so used this order to nullify the sanctions against them.  

    The reason is that he wants to protect us interests and security by sending these people money.  If there are sanctions he can't.

    He is basically taking away the sanctions in Yemen, Libya, and South Sudan, so he can send them money.

    Quoting yourspecialkid:

     Before Obama gutted the law these people would not be able to come to the US without facing criminal charges.  It helped to prevent us from being a safe haven for them.

    I can think of NO good reason for him to touch the law.


     You should have looked deeper.  I heard about it on the radio.  A lady from some human rights group was talking about it.  I easily googled it up.

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2442

    USCTitle 18Part IChapter 118 › § 2442

    18 USC § 2442 - Recruitment or use of child soldiers

    USCPrelim is a preliminary release and may be subject to further revision before it is released again as a final version.

    Current through Pub. L. 112-283. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)

    (a) Offense.- Whoever knowingly-
    (1) recruits, enlists, or conscripts a person to serve while such person is under 15 years of age in an armed force or group; or
    (2) uses a person under 15 years of age to participate actively in hostilities;
    knowing such person is under 15 years of age, shall be punished as provided in subsection (b).
    (b) Penalty.- Whoever violates, or attempts or conspires to violate, subsection (a) shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both and, if death of any person results, shall be fined under this title and imprisoned for any term of years or for life.
    (c) Jurisdiction.- There is jurisdiction over an offense described in subsection (a), and any attempt or conspiracy to commit such offense, if-
    (1) the alleged offender is a national of the United States (as defined in section 101(a)(22) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(22))) or an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence in the United States (as defined in section 101(a)(20) of such Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(20));  [1]  
    (2) the alleged offender is a stateless person whose habitual residence is in the United States;
    (3) the alleged offender is present in the United States, irrespective of the nationality of the alleged offender; or
    (4) the offense occurs in whole or in part within the United States.
    (d) Definitions.- In this section:
    (1) Participate actively in hostilities.- The term "participate actively in hostilities" means taking part in-
    (A) combat or military activities related to combat, including sabotage and serving as a decoy, a courier, or at a military checkpoint; or
    (B) direct support functions related to combat, including transporting supplies or providing other services.
    (2) Armed force or group.- The term "armed force or group" means any army, militia, or other military organization, whether or not it is state-sponsored, excluding any group assembled solely for nonviolent political association.


  • stacymomof2
    February 9, 2013 at 5:12 PM

    And other one from when he signed the same order in 2010

    President Obama has granted a waiver allowing four countries to continue receiving U.S. military aid even though they use child soldiers, officials said Wednesday.

    Human rights groups reacted with surprise and concern, saying the decision would send the wrong message.

    "What the president has done is basically given everybody a pass for using child soldiers," said Jo Becker, children's rights director at Human Rights Watch.

    Administration officials said cutting off aid would cause more damage than good in countries where the U.S. military is trying to fight terrorism and reform abusive armies.

    Obama sent a memo to Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, dated Monday, saying that it was "in the national interest" to waive a cutoff of military assistance for Chad, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Sudan and Yemen.

    ad_icon

    Those countries would have been penalized under the Child Soldiers Prevention Act, which was signed into law by President George W. Bush shortly before he left office. The law took effect this year, after the State Department identified six countries that used government soldiers - including Somalia and Burma.

    Senior U.S. officials said Wednesday that Yemen was exempted because ending military aid would jeopardize the country's ability to fight al-Qaeda. In Sudan, U.S. military assistance will be critical in helping the unstable southern part of the country build military institutions if it votes to secede in a January referendum, as expected, officials said.

    Congo was exempted because U.S.-funded programs there are aimed at helping the military become more professional and less abusive, officials said. Chad got a pass because of its role in fighting terrorism and assistance with the humanitarian crisis in the Darfur region of Sudan. In addition, U.S. aid goes toward helping that country's military end its practice of using child soldiers, officials said.

     http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/27/AR2010102707157.html

    What I find interesting is that all the conservative publications are agreeing with the UN.


    Quoting yourspecialkid:

     

    Quoting stacymomof2:

    That isn't what he changed.  He is sending money to these countries and so used this order to nullify the sanctions against them.  

    The reason is that he wants to protect us interests and security by sending these people money.  If there are sanctions he can't.

    He is basically taking away the sanctions in Yemen, Libya, and South Sudan, so he can send them money.

    Quoting yourspecialkid:

     Before Obama gutted the law these people would not be able to come to the US without facing criminal charges.  It helped to prevent us from being a safe haven for them.

    I can think of NO good reason for him to touch the law.


     You should have looked deeper.  I heard about it on the radio.  A lady from some human rights group was talking about it.  I easily googled it up.

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2442

    USCTitle 18Part IChapter 118 › § 2442

    18 USC § 2442 - Recruitment or use of child soldiers

    USCPrelim is a preliminary release and may be subject to further revision before it is released again as a final version.

    Current through Pub. L. 112-283. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)

    (a) Offense.- Whoever knowingly-
    (1) recruits, enlists, or conscripts a person to serve while such person is under 15 years of age in an armed force or group; or
    (2) uses a person under 15 years of age to participate actively in hostilities;
    knowing such person is under 15 years of age, shall be punished as provided in subsection (b).
    (b) Penalty.- Whoever violates, or attempts or conspires to violate, subsection (a) shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both and, if death of any person results, shall be fined under this title and imprisoned for any term of years or for life.
    (c) Jurisdiction.- There is jurisdiction over an offense described in subsection (a), and any attempt or conspiracy to commit such offense, if-
    (1) the alleged offender is a national of the United States (as defined in section 101(a)(22) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(22))) or an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence in the United States (as defined in section 101(a)(20) of such Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(20));  [1]  
    (2) the alleged offender is a stateless person whose habitual residence is in the United States;
    (3) the alleged offender is present in the United States, irrespective of the nationality of the alleged offender; or
    (4) the offense occurs in whole or in part within the United States.
    (d) Definitions.- In this section:
    (1) Participate actively in hostilities.- The term "participate actively in hostilities" means taking part in-
    (A) combat or military activities related to combat, including sabotage and serving as a decoy, a courier, or at a military checkpoint; or
    (B) direct support functions related to combat, including transporting supplies or providing other services.
    (2) Armed force or group.- The term "armed force or group" means any army, militia, or other military organization, whether or not it is state-sponsored, excluding any group assembled solely for nonviolent political association.


  • rfurlongg
    February 9, 2013 at 5:14 PM
    Interesting.

    Quoting stacymomof2:

    I'm sorry buy your information is incorrect.  Here's the actual memorandum (signed in Sept 2012 and posted on Whitehouse.gov

    Presidential Memorandum -- Presidential Determination with respect to the Child Soldiers Prevention Act of 2008

    MEMORANDUM FOR THE SECRETARY OF STATE

    SUBJECT: Determination with Respect to the Child Soldiers Prevention Act of 2008

    Pursuant to section 404 of the Child Soldiers Prevention Act of 2008 (CSPA) (title IV, Public Law 110-457), I hereby determine that it is in the national interest of the United States to waive the application of the prohibition in section 404(a) of the CSPA with respect to Libya, South Sudan, and Yemen; and further determine that it is in the national interest of the United States to waive in part the application of the prohibition in section 404(a) of the CSPA with respect to the Democratic Republic of the Congo, to allow for continued provision of International Military Education and Training funds and nonlethal Excess Defense Articles, and the issuance of licenses for direct commercial sales of U.S. origin defense articles; and I hereby waive such provisions accordingly.

    You are authorized and directed to submit this determination to the Congress, along with the accompanying Memorandum of Justification, and to publish the determination in the Federal Register.

    BARACK OBAMA

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/09/28/presidential-memorandum-presidential-determination-respect-child-soldier

    The reason why he is waiving these sancions, which would include dropping military aid for these countries, is because our government wants to continue to send them aid to increase US interests in security in that reigion.  He has done this for the past 3 years in a row.  There is definitely a debate here, but lets keep it based on facts and not some crazy exaggerations.

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