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AliKatCam
OT If you are against cropping and docking then why spay and neuter?
December 9, 2012 at 11:56 PM

I am a vet tech and I posted in another group how I have preformed several crop and dock jobs (yes I can do that). People started going off how it is cruel and where I can see the point I don't see how you can be anti-crop and dock but pro-spay and neuter. I am not pro or anti either. I don't do either but I am not against them. 

Let me set some facts about each

Cropping and docking: Depending on the vet and the breeder it is done between 3 days and 12 weeks (no later than 12 weeks either way) under general anesthesia (or full anesthesia depending on the vet. Cropping is the removal of undeveloped cartilage and the pups feel no pain during or after (afterwards they just want mommy and some food). Docking hurts like hell but they get over it.  Trust me, with  puppies you can tell if they are in pain (they cry). Pain meds are still given The healing process takes about 10-14 days and then the stitches fall out (at least our stitches fall out, some may need to be removed but it doesn't feel like anything). You may have to clean the area to keep it nice and dry and the dogs usually show no sign of pain during. Annoyance, yes but not pain. Afterwards, depending on the length of the crop, the ears are either posted to keep them up or left alone to stand on their own. While the pups are healing they are allowed to play, and crawl over each other all they want

Spaying and Neutering: Is usually done with adolescent or adult dogs under anesthesia. It is the removal of fully developed, or close to fully developed, reproductive organs. The dogs are usually in need of pain medicines and a E-collar (the cone of shame) to stop the dogs from being in pain and picking at the wounds.  The dogs are encouraged to sit still as the stitches could tear open. Also if you attempted to touch it the dog will squeal and let you know of the pain. The healing process is about 10-14 days.

I fail to see any difference here.  So I find it a bit hypocritical to be against one but for another.


Spay and Neuter myths

1. It calms them down

-Spaying or neutering a dog does not change its activity level. The dog may be calm when it realizes that running hurts like hell but after the pain is over they will be back to normal. 

2. It will make them less aggressive

- Uhh no. Aggression is in the brain, not the balls. Altering a dog will not make it any less aggressive. If a dog is truly aggressive, aggressive then that is genetic and only euthanasia can cure it.  Sorry but its true. Unless you are the type that can actually control it.

3. It makes them fat

-No, you make them fat by over feeding and not exercising.

4. If I neuter my cat/dog then he will stop peeing in the house

-There is a difference between spaying and peeing. If the cat/dog is urinating in your house then that is because of a lack of training on your part. Cutting out their organs will not stop it. 

5. If I neuter my males/females they will stop fighting

-*Buzzer noise* wrong. If your pets are already fighting then altering will not stop it. They have already got into the habit of fighting. They will not stop.


Crop and dock myths

1. It makes them look tough

-No it makes you look stupid for even thinking that. Sure the dog looks like something straight out of hell until you go up to it and it licks you to death. Even then if the surgeries are done professionally and the dog doesn't look like a beast that has got into a fight with a chainsaw then there is nothing "tough" about it.

2. Cropping/docking makes them mean

- Once again. Aggression is in the brain, not the ears or tail.

3. They get more infections

-Nope. Actually dogs with upright ears (Cropped or natural) are less likely to get infections because air and moisture is allowed to move in and out freely as opposed to getting trapped inside. And dogs with cropped tails are less likely to get tail injuries (can't injure what you don't have)

4. It hurts into adulthood

-Feel your ears with those earrings dangling out of them. Do they still hurt? No, right? So take into account that dogs have a higher pain tolerance than us and that they do not live in the past and then you will understand how wrong that myth is. In all actuality, the pups forget about it by the time they go home.

5. No good vet will do them

-False. A good vet will put the wants of their clients first. Instead of saying no and sending you in the direction of some idiot in his backyard with a pair of scissors and a band-aid.


So yea. Idc if you are against it or not. Just don't be against one and not the other. It is basically the same. I haven't cropped a pet of my own nor spayed/ neutered my pets. I have to spay/neuter my rescues because that is the law but unless my pets were altered beforehand then they are not fixed. I don't mind if you do it (Its your choice what you do with your pets) and I will be glad to oblidge if I am asked to assist with one or preform one. 


Edit: This is not a comparison. This is a question. If your only reason to be against cropping and docking is because "it hurts" then why be pro S/N. You are aware that the removal of reproductive organs hurts even more right?

Replies

  • tambrathegreat
    December 12, 2012 at 8:27 AM

    Re-reading that I realize I made it sound like my parents did the docking.   No, they went to the vet and had the tails done.  However, I am a groomer.  I can't tell you how many dogs I've seen with breeder-done ears and tails.  The best option to curb this practice is to ban docking and cropping. 

    Quoting AliKatCam:

    What good breeder you know of does that at home? Only a backyard breeder would do their own surgeries at home. Taking a knife, rubberband or some scissors to your pets is freaking barbaric. I am happy your parents no longer breed.

    Quoting tambrathegreat:

    Cropping and docking is rarely done under general anesthesia.  I don't know where you got your info, but many breeders crop/dock ears at home.  Also, giving a tiny puppy anesthetic would be tricky at best and most veterinarian won't or don't.  Please don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.   My parents bred their corgis and suffered through the guilt they felt over the docking of the pups' tails.  They never bred again because of the cruelty they perceived in the process.  The idea that these pups experience no pain is ridiculous.  They do. 

    Spaying and neutering are done for two reasons.  The first is to keep a seriously overpopulated pet population from sky-rocketing.  These procedures are done anywhere from two months old to adulthood, and also (point number two) keep adult dogs from suffering from common reproductive health problems.  Male dogs can and do get prostate cancer and female dogs can and do get several infections, suffer through false pregnancies, and also are prone to uterine/ovarian cancer. 

    Some people advocate spaying and neutering to curb behavior problems related to gender, such as marking also. 

    There is a huge difference, in my opinion, between doing something that is cosmetic to a puppy and doing something for the overall health of your animal and the pet population in general. 



  • EireLass
    December 13, 2012 at 12:24 PM

    Here's my working dog with a cropped tail. He was 4 when he got docked...under general anesthesia. Bandage came off the following day, he never had a cone on, never bit, chewed, sniffed the stitches. Never bothered him, obviously didn't hurt him. Did not affect his agility or balance.


  • nickysmom71
    December 13, 2012 at 12:35 PM

    I have no issue with cropping/docking - Hell I have always owned Rotties and always cropped and docked....I also have no problem with spaying or nutering although I did not because ours were show quality dogs and we breeded them for sale.  Good German Von Bon bloodlines.

    My adopted dog now is half rottie half shepard..she is not cropped and docked but is adorable...I wuvs her!!!

       

  • beesbad
    by beesbad
    December 13, 2012 at 12:47 PM


    Quoting AliKatCam:

    I understand the S/N thing being okay when you don't want puppies. So is not allowing your dogs to breed.  S/N after you have already bred your dog (because they just had to have "babies" before being fixed) and fixing because of something silly like peeing in the house is unnecessary. You have already contributed to the problem.  Am I right? 

    Not all crops are necessary. I keep bringing up the hog problem but it is the one closest to me. Uncropped dogs have more of a chance of getting their ears ripped off or grabbed so they are cropped. Not docked though. I find it unecessary too (unless the dog has a happy hair and keeps breaking it) but I am not the type to tell people how to own their pets.

    Quoting kailu1835:

    Because spaying and neutering is essential if you don't want puppies, or to be responsible for another person's puppies, and cropping and docking is a 100% unnecessary procedure with no medical benefit whatsoever.  You are comparing apples and pasta.


    We have an 8 month old English Labrador puppy that we will breed one time before spaying. Our dog was from a reputable breeder and she will be bred through a service dog organization. She is very smart and her personality is amazing and we have had family members and friends already asking for one of her puppies. They will pay the cost of the puppies care and shots so we will break even and not make any profit. I will not sell or give any puppies to anyone I don't personally know and trust, the remainder of the puppies will be given to the service dog organization to be fostered out and trained as service dogs.

    So I guess that was a long winded way of saying that by breeding our dog once is not contributing to any problem.

    You can't compare spay/neuter to crop/doc, the reasons behind the procedures are completely different. The primary reason behind spay/neuter is to prevent unwanted puppies. And while there may be a valid reason to crop or doc a working dog, most dogs who are cropped and/or docked are pets that will never work a day in their lives.


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