brookiecookie87
Should 98% of America lose tax cuts because the GOP/Top2%?
November 11, 2012 at 4:45 PM

Obama To Boehner: Higher Taxes On The Wealthy Or The Bush Tax Cuts Expire

132192

President Obama and House Speaker John Boehner have each made cursory appeals to cooperation in the wake of Tuesday’s election. But they’re still making incompatible demands about the tax code. And on Friday, President Obama made clear that if Republicans reject the policy goal he campaigned on, all of the Bush tax cuts will expire.

“If we’re serious about reducing the deficit we have to combine spending cuts with revenue, and that means asking the wealthy to pay a little more in taxes,” Obama said in public remarks at the White House. “Right now if Congress fails to come to an agreement on an overall deficit reduction package by the end of the year, everybody’s taxes will automatically go up on January 1.”

In both 2008 and 2012, Obama campaigned on the goal of allowing the Bush tax cuts that exclusively benefit top earners to expire. That would increase the top marginal tax rate from 35 percent to 39.6 percent next year. But Boehner and other Republicans want tax rates off the table and GOP aides suggest higher tax rates can’t pass the Republican House.

In his first post-election press conference, a couple of hours before the President’s statement, Boehner also indicated his willingness to compromise — though he reiterated Republican opposition to raising tax rates. “On Wednesday, I outlined a responsible path forward to avert the fiscal cliff without raising tax rates,” Boehner said.

“There is no mandate for raising tax rates on the American people,” House Majority Leader Eric Cantor said in a Wednesday statement. “There is a mandate for avoiding the fiscal cliff and finding real solutions so we can make life work for people again.”

Obama did leave modest room for negotiations. “I’m not going to ask students and seniors and middle class families to pay down the entire deficit while people like me making over $250,000 aren’t asked to pay a dime more in taxes,” he said.

Boehner could meet Obama’s demand without raising tax rates by limiting tax expenditure benefits for high income people. But for now, Boehner has only suggested that revenues from this sort of base broadening should be used to lower tax rates. Obama, by contrast, is asking the House to pass a Senate bill that would isolate the Bush tax cuts for top earners and allow them to expire.

“The Senate has already passed a bill doing exactly this, so all we need is action from the House,” Obama said. “And I’ve got the pen, ready to sign the bill right away.”

In an official statement, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, echoed the President. “The Senate passed a bill to cut taxes for Americans making less than $250,000, and the House should pass it immediately.”

White House Press Secretary Jay Carney was even more blunt. “He will veto any bill extending Bush era tax cuts for the top two percent of wage earners in this country.”

That leaves the onus on Boehner to either pass that bill, or find an equivalent way to take the same amount of new revenue from high income earners. So far, he and other GOP leaders seem unwilling.

“”The increased tax rates that would be allowed under the Senate-passed bill are part of the fiscal cliff that economists are warning us to avoid,” Boehner said in response to the Presidents remarks. “Those increased tax rates will destroy jobs in America by hurting small businesses across the country.”

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell was more strident. “[T]here is no consensus on raising tax rates, which would undermine the jobs and growth we all believe are important to our economy,” McConnell said. “While I appreciate and share the President’s desire to put the election behind us, the fact is we still have yet to hear an actual plan from the President for addressing the great economic challenges we face. What’s needed now is a realistic and specific proposal from the President that can actually pass the Congress.”

They’ve left themselves some wiggle room. But if they don’t squeeze themselves through it, Obama said, everyone’s taxes go up at the end of the year.


Replies

  • NWP
    by NWP
    November 12, 2012 at 6:25 PM

    Stacy, you are preaching to the choir with me.

    Quoting stacymomof2:

    The point is that if business is NOT regulated then who pays for the business' profits?  WE do.  We all pay in quality of life, water and environmental clean up, etc etc.

    While Carpy may be a good steward of the environment with her controlled substances, what about Koch refinery south of where I live?  The regulations exist because the taxpayers should not have to support a business by cleaning up their messes.  Or, the people in the area should not have to give up their health or possibly their life because they live next to someone who is making money dumping shit into a river.

    I mean talk about entitlement and expecting people to pay for your shit.  Why should I have to clean up whatever toxic crap Koch refinery dumps into the environment?  They'd better find a way to fold it into their business model, otherwise they aren't doing business, they are just sucking off the taxpayers.

    I work at a nightclub, you would not believe the regulations we have to abide by.  When we can open, when we can close, 4 different types of insurance (liquor liability, general liability, property, workers comp) and what levels of insurance we have to carry. Licenses renewed yearly to the tune of 20grand, fire inspections, health inspections, liquor inspections, liquor audits, payroll audits, food audits.  And so what do you think we do?  We price our product and run our business to turn a profit.  We don't run to the city and expect to get a break on our liquor license fee.  It's not easy and that's why lots of places go out of business.  So why should small business like the one I work at subsidize huge businesses like Koch with our state taxes? If the guy I work for can do it, so can the big 3 million a year CEO of a big corp.   

    What I am saying is that regulations need to be strengthened to increase the competitiveness of small business.  Why should a local pig farmer be required to process their pig shit and a big CFO pig farm just be able to spray it into the nearest field? (Actual facts, by the way.)  No wonder the meat is so much cheaper from a CFO...they don't have to follow the same regulations a small farmer does.


    Quoting NWP:

    Carpy cannot comment to this or many other general issues. Her opinions, like all of us, are formed by our experiences. Carpy owns a business that deals in controlled substances and she is regulated out the wazzoo for it.

    Most small business do not have to face the amount of regulations she does because they do not deal in controlled substances..but she knows what she knows.

    Quoting stacymomof2:

    Prove it, Carpy.  Small business does not have the opportunity to influence legislation like the huge companies.  Huge companies are using the regulation excuse to act like their hands are tied...it sounds convincing but is it actually true?  Nope.  Do you know that small producers have HIGHER costs than big ones?  Because they don't have some sweetheart deal with their personal paid representative that was able to insert their little caveat that protects them from certain regulations.

    I would think this is not a lib/con issue.  This is an issue that if you really support small business and job creation, you need to get a true idea of what actually is going on.  

    Quoting Carpy:

    They were lost to regulation costs.

    Quoting stacymomof2:

    I always want to scream this from the rooftops...IF TAX CUTS CREATED JOBS, WHERE ARE THE JOBS THAT 10 YEARS OF TAX CUTS HAVE CREATED?!

    Quoting stringtheory:

    Well, the rich have had eight years of tax cuts to create jobs. Where is the evidence that we should keep those cuts in place?

    Quoting kailu1835:

    The economy in general has sucked since the bursting of the housing bubble (which started because the government decided minorities needed more loans, regardless of their ability to pay them back), and there haven't been a heck of a lot of jobs created since then.  However, historically and factually speaking, the poor are not job creators.  Never have, never will be.  That honor goes to the rich.

    Quoting Aslen:

    LMAO @ socialism class.

    Thing is, the wealthy have had these tax cuts for many years. Jobs were NOT created, were they?














  • stacymomof2
    November 12, 2012 at 6:49 PM

    LOL, I know.  Got off on a rant, I used you as a springboard.  :)

    Quoting NWP:

    Stacy, you are preaching to the choir with me.

    Quoting stacymomof2:

    The point is that if business is NOT regulated then who pays for the business' profits?  WE do.  We all pay in quality of life, water and environmental clean up, etc etc.

    While Carpy may be a good steward of the environment with her controlled substances, what about Koch refinery south of where I live?  The regulations exist because the taxpayers should not have to support a business by cleaning up their messes.  Or, the people in the area should not have to give up their health or possibly their life because they live next to someone who is making money dumping shit into a river.

    I mean talk about entitlement and expecting people to pay for your shit.  Why should I have to clean up whatever toxic crap Koch refinery dumps into the environment?  They'd better find a way to fold it into their business model, otherwise they aren't doing business, they are just sucking off the taxpayers.

    I work at a nightclub, you would not believe the regulations we have to abide by.  When we can open, when we can close, 4 different types of insurance (liquor liability, general liability, property, workers comp) and what levels of insurance we have to carry. Licenses renewed yearly to the tune of 20grand, fire inspections, health inspections, liquor inspections, liquor audits, payroll audits, food audits.  And so what do you think we do?  We price our product and run our business to turn a profit.  We don't run to the city and expect to get a break on our liquor license fee.  It's not easy and that's why lots of places go out of business.  So why should small business like the one I work at subsidize huge businesses like Koch with our state taxes? If the guy I work for can do it, so can the big 3 million a year CEO of a big corp.   

    What I am saying is that regulations need to be strengthened to increase the competitiveness of small business.  Why should a local pig farmer be required to process their pig shit and a big CFO pig farm just be able to spray it into the nearest field? (Actual facts, by the way.)  No wonder the meat is so much cheaper from a CFO...they don't have to follow the same regulations a small farmer does.


    Quoting NWP:

    Carpy cannot comment to this or many other general issues. Her opinions, like all of us, are formed by our experiences. Carpy owns a business that deals in controlled substances and she is regulated out the wazzoo for it.

    Most small business do not have to face the amount of regulations she does because they do not deal in controlled substances..but she knows what she knows.

    Quoting stacymomof2:

    Prove it, Carpy.  Small business does not have the opportunity to influence legislation like the huge companies.  Huge companies are using the regulation excuse to act like their hands are tied...it sounds convincing but is it actually true?  Nope.  Do you know that small producers have HIGHER costs than big ones?  Because they don't have some sweetheart deal with their personal paid representative that was able to insert their little caveat that protects them from certain regulations.

    I would think this is not a lib/con issue.  This is an issue that if you really support small business and job creation, you need to get a true idea of what actually is going on.  

    Quoting Carpy:

    They were lost to regulation costs.

    Quoting stacymomof2:

    I always want to scream this from the rooftops...IF TAX CUTS CREATED JOBS, WHERE ARE THE JOBS THAT 10 YEARS OF TAX CUTS HAVE CREATED?!

    Quoting stringtheory:

    Well, the rich have had eight years of tax cuts to create jobs. Where is the evidence that we should keep those cuts in place?

    Quoting kailu1835:

    The economy in general has sucked since the bursting of the housing bubble (which started because the government decided minorities needed more loans, regardless of their ability to pay them back), and there haven't been a heck of a lot of jobs created since then.  However, historically and factually speaking, the poor are not job creators.  Never have, never will be.  That honor goes to the rich.

    Quoting Aslen:

    LMAO @ socialism class.

    Thing is, the wealthy have had these tax cuts for many years. Jobs were NOT created, were they?















  • DixieL
    by DixieL
    November 12, 2012 at 7:18 PM


    Quoting brookiecookie87:

    I keep hearing Conservatives/Republicans saying that Democrats/President Obama are trying to destroy the Middle Class.

    But President Obama is trying to extend the Tax Cuts for 98% of America. But the GOP/Republicans are refusing to let them get the extension unless the top 2% gets the extension too.

    I just don't understand how a Political Party can claim they are for the Middle Class and then turn around and hold them hostage by saying, "Give us Tax Extensions or else we won't pass the extention for the middle class".


    I don't think he is going to let the republicans get away with it this time.

  • emeraldangel2.0
    November 12, 2012 at 8:13 PM

    I know I'm not. If they don't want to work with him, I'm more than willing to help them find a new job. One that's not in a Senate or House seat in Congress

    Quoting DixieL:


    Quoting brookiecookie87:

    I keep hearing Conservatives/Republicans saying that Democrats/President Obama are trying to destroy the Middle Class.

    But President Obama is trying to extend the Tax Cuts for 98% of America. But the GOP/Republicans are refusing to let them get the extension unless the top 2% gets the extension too.

    I just don't understand how a Political Party can claim they are for the Middle Class and then turn around and hold them hostage by saying, "Give us Tax Extensions or else we won't pass the extention for the middle class".


    I don't think he is going to let the republicans get away with it this time.


  • MomTiara19
    November 12, 2012 at 8:27 PM

    Exactly!

    Obama is just trying to give the middle class a tax break.The economy will do well...it is a win win situation.

  • Carpy
    by Carpy
    November 12, 2012 at 8:51 PM

    Carpy could not comment because she was to busy running her business today and had no time to even see this.  Big week gearing up for opening day, thursday.  It is rather easy to prove.  Go look through the federal registy for the last 10 years.

    And then there is this

    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/6125-proposed-regulations-and-notifications-posted-last-90-days-average-68-day

    Quoting NWP:

    Carpy cannot comment to this or many other general issues. Her opinions, like all of us, are formed by our experiences. Carpy owns a business that deals in controlled substances and she is regulated out the wazzoo for it.

    Most small business do not have to face the amount of regulations she does because they do not deal in controlled substances..but she knows what she knows.

    Quoting stacymomof2:

    Prove it, Carpy.  Small business does not have the opportunity to influence legislation like the huge companies.  Huge companies are using the regulation excuse to act like their hands are tied...it sounds convincing but is it actually true?  Nope.  Do you know that small producers have HIGHER costs than big ones?  Because they don't have some sweetheart deal with their personal paid representative that was able to insert their little caveat that protects them from certain regulations.

    I would think this is not a lib/con issue.  This is an issue that if you really support small business and job creation, you need to get a true idea of what actually is going on.  

    Quoting Carpy:

    They were lost to regulation costs.

    Quoting stacymomof2:

    I always want to scream this from the rooftops...IF TAX CUTS CREATED JOBS, WHERE ARE THE JOBS THAT 10 YEARS OF TAX CUTS HAVE CREATED?!

    Quoting stringtheory:

    Well, the rich have had eight years of tax cuts to create jobs. Where is the evidence that we should keep those cuts in place?

    Quoting kailu1835:

    The economy in general has sucked since the bursting of the housing bubble (which started because the government decided minorities needed more loans, regardless of their ability to pay them back), and there haven't been a heck of a lot of jobs created since then.  However, historically and factually speaking, the poor are not job creators.  Never have, never will be.  That honor goes to the rich.

    Quoting Aslen:

    LMAO @ socialism class.

    Thing is, the wealthy have had these tax cuts for many years. Jobs were NOT created, were they?













  • Carpy
    by Carpy
    November 12, 2012 at 9:01 PM


    Quoting stacymomof2:

    The point is that if business is NOT regulated then who pays for the business' profits?  WE do.  We all pay in quality of life, water and environmental clean up, etc etc.

    Those are not regualtions I complain about.  I want a clean environment as much as anyone else. 

    While Carpy may be a good steward of the environment with her controlled substances, what about Koch refinery south of where I live?  The regulations exist because the taxpayers should not have to support a business by cleaning up their messes.  Or, the people in the area should not have to give up their health or possibly their life because they live next to someone who is making money dumping shit into a river.

    I mean talk about entitlement and expecting people to pay for your shit.  Why should I have to clean up whatever toxic crap Koch refinery dumps into the environment?  They'd better find a way to fold it into their business model, otherwise they aren't doing business, they are just sucking off the taxpayers.

    I work at a nightclub, you would not believe the regulations we have to abide by.  When we can open, when we can close, 4 different types of insurance (liquor liability, general liability, property, workers comp) and what levels of insurance we have to carry. Licenses renewed yearly to the tune of 20grand, fire inspections, health inspections, liquor inspections, liquor audits, payroll audits, food audits.  And so what do you think we do?  We price our product and run our business to turn a profit.  We don't run to the city and expect to get a break on our liquor license fee.  It's not easy and that's why lots of places go out of business.  So why should small business like the one I work at subsidize huge businesses like Koch with our state taxes? If the guy I work for can do it, so can the big 3 million a year CEO of a big corp.   

    What I am saying is that regulations need to be strengthened to increase the competitiveness of small business.  Why should a local pig farmer be required to process their pig shit and a big CFO pig farm just be able to spray it into the nearest field? (Actual facts, by the way.)  No wonder the meat is so much cheaper from a CFO...they don't have to follow the same regulations a small farmer does.


    Quoting NWP:

    Carpy cannot comment to this or many other general issues. Her opinions, like all of us, are formed by our experiences. Carpy owns a business that deals in controlled substances and she is regulated out the wazzoo for it.

    Most small business do not have to face the amount of regulations she does because they do not deal in controlled substances..but she knows what she knows.

    Quoting stacymomof2:

    Prove it, Carpy.  Small business does not have the opportunity to influence legislation like the huge companies.  Huge companies are using the regulation excuse to act like their hands are tied...it sounds convincing but is it actually true?  Nope.  Do you know that small producers have HIGHER costs than big ones?  Because they don't have some sweetheart deal with their personal paid representative that was able to insert their little caveat that protects them from certain regulations.

    I would think this is not a lib/con issue.  This is an issue that if you really support small business and job creation, you need to get a true idea of what actually is going on.  

    Quoting Carpy:

    They were lost to regulation costs.

    Quoting stacymomof2:

    I always want to scream this from the rooftops...IF TAX CUTS CREATED JOBS, WHERE ARE THE JOBS THAT 10 YEARS OF TAX CUTS HAVE CREATED?!

    Quoting stringtheory:

    Well, the rich have had eight years of tax cuts to create jobs. Where is the evidence that we should keep those cuts in place?

    Quoting kailu1835:

    The economy in general has sucked since the bursting of the housing bubble (which started because the government decided minorities needed more loans, regardless of their ability to pay them back), and there haven't been a heck of a lot of jobs created since then.  However, historically and factually speaking, the poor are not job creators.  Never have, never will be.  That honor goes to the rich.

    Quoting Aslen:

    LMAO @ socialism class.

    Thing is, the wealthy have had these tax cuts for many years. Jobs were NOT created, were they?














  • Carpy
    by Carpy
    November 12, 2012 at 9:04 PM

    Not in a happy mood as you can see on my post here

    http://www.cafemom.com/group/115890/forums/read/17596269/Gotta_Love_the_IRS_SMFs_Personal_post_of_the_day

  • GLWerth
    by GLWerth
    November 12, 2012 at 9:05 PM

    They know that the President is a decent human being who wouldn't let them shoot the hostage.

    Any one of them would gladly feed middle class people into a wood chipper if they thought it would fatten their wallets and those of their extraordinarily wealthy backers.

    Quoting brookiecookie87:

    I keep hearing Conservatives/Republicans saying that Democrats/President Obama are trying to destroy the Middle Class.

    But President Obama is trying to extend the Tax Cuts for 98% of America. But the GOP/Republicans are refusing to let them get the extension unless the top 2% gets the extension too.

    I just don't understand how a Political Party can claim they are for the Middle Class and then turn around and hold them hostage by saying, "Give us Tax Extensions or else we won't pass the extention for the middle class".



  • silver007
    November 14, 2012 at 8:27 AM

    How do you figure that raising the federal tax rate from 35% of that family's AGI to 39.6% of their AGI iso a $1500 tax increase?

    A family making $300K AGI owes $105,000 federal tax at 35%

    At 39.6% obama rate, they will owe $118,000 federal tax on $300K 

    Surely obama is right and lots of families have an extra $13000 laying around so they might as well pay it in tax

    He admits taking that much more of their income  won't do diddly to reduce the deficit , but it's "fair"

    disclaimer: My 5th grader did this math

    Quoting stacymomof2:

    And lets not forget, that with this tax increase, someone making 300grand a year will be paying about $1500 more in taxes.  Not $9000 more.  $1500 more.  And that's if their accountant can't find a way to deduct or invest another $50 grand.