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Veni.Vidi.Vici.
Michigan Muslims rally against First Amendment (debunked)
September 29, 2012 at 10:16 PM

Michigan Muslims rally against First Amendment

Michigan Muslims rally against First Amendment
From the event's website: "The gathering will be attended by over 1,000 community members, clergy, community leaders and public officials of all persuasions who continue to reject the messages of hate and Islamaphobia that have escalated in recent months and years, most recently with the production of the infamous film 'Innocence of Muslims.' " Photo Credit:Facebook

Led by a newspaper publisher, Muslim activists will call for putting limits on American free speech at a Dearborn rally this evening. You can't make this stuff up.

Nearly a decade after Dearborn's streets celebrated America for bringing down Saddam Hussein and opening a door to democracy in the Mideast, the same city will be the epicenter today of calls to squelch free speech. Protesting the film, "Innocence of Muslims," that has sparked protests in the Mideast, rally organizer Tarek Baydoun says that so-called blasphemy laws are necessary to prevent speech that hurts the "the religious feelings of Muslims."

This assault on the First Amendment in the name of the prophet Mohammed is a sad day in America — and confirms fears that Muslim-American activists do not understand the fundamental separation of church and state in the American Constitution.


9/30/12: This blog/article is clearly an attempt to aggravate people. Thanks to a great discussion and multiple contributions "we" have come to the conclusion that this article it bullshit.



Replies

  • 12hellokitty
    October 3, 2012 at 11:29 AM

     

    Quoting Moniker:


    Quoting Veni.Vidi.Vici.:


    Quoting Moniker:


    Quoting Veni.Vidi.Vici.:


    Quoting 12hellokitty:

     

    Actually the MTA has since revised it's rules on what type of ads they will accept along with requiring the ad to have a disclaimer. 

    Likely a disclaimer stating that the thoughts of the ad don 't supprt that of the MTA or the city. IMO that's not an appropriate disclaimer. lol

    And a disclaimer that the views expressed don't reflect the views of the MTA isn't an infringement on speech. Those types of disclaimers are widely used.

    I didn't imply that

    Opps that wasn't inteded for you but for the poster who brought it up. 

    I didn't say it was.  My comment was to show that free speech in this example as small as it may appear, has been revised based on the actions of people who find the speech offensive.  And the MTA also redefined what type of ad they will accept in the future.  As long as they apply the standard equally to all submitted ads there is no problem.     

  • LivingIslam
    October 3, 2012 at 11:36 AM

     I condemn any acts of violence done in the name of my faith.  I condemn it on both sides. 

    Quoting 12hellokitty:

     

    Quoting LivingIslam:

     That movie and those subway ads are created to dehumanize, villianize and entice hatred towards people who are Muslim.  They are meant to cultivate a climate of dislike and hatred towards us.  There are groups behind this with big agendas.  Look at the timing:  right during the week of 9/11 they bring out the movie and the subway ads.  There is a real agenda to keep the hate, distrust and dislike of Muslim Americans going. 

     

    Have you seen the movie?  Other then a 13 minute clip on youtube, I'm not aware of this movie having been marketed in the US.  Other then a handful of people no one had heard of the movie until it was used as propaganda by not only extremist, but sadly the Obama administration. 

    I have watched the 13 minute youtube clip and it's stupid.  People who find humor in mocking religions think the movie was stupid and not funny.  In fact I'm not aware of ANYONE who found the movie to be the lest bit funny or cleaver.  So I find it hard to believe this movie could be viewed as inciting people to react violently towards Muslims.

    As for the timing, the movie was made and had been on youtube since July, and the subway ads were submitted a year ago and just recently approved and put up by the MTA.   

    Have you ever thought that perhaps the Muslim extremists engaging in violence are the ones who benefit the most in promoting an atmosphere of hate, distrust and dislike of Muslims? 

     

  • 12hellokitty
    October 3, 2012 at 11:38 AM


    Quoting Veni.Vidi.Vici.:


    Quoting stacymomof2:

    Yes, I didn't IMPLY that people who agreed with the OP are bigoted, I staight up said it.  Read that piece of crap again and tell me.  

    "You can't make this stuff up!"  When something like that is written in an article you can be assured that it is certainly not a straight news piece.  The headline is a lie.  Really, Dearborn is the "epicenter to squelch free speech."  And how about this little gem:

    his assault on the First Amendment in the name of the prophet Mohammed is a sad day in America — and confirms fears that Muslim-American activists do not understand the fundamental separation of church and state in the American Constitution.

    That line in the red is straight up bigotry.  It is speading the notion that Muslim AMERICAN activists are a bunch of anti-free speech zealots.  Really, Muslim American activists do not understand?  Just what is the basis for that sweeping generalization?  The words of a Christian minister?

    Furthermore the article that that one links to is even worse.  If you seriously can't see the bias and hyperbole in that article, I don't know what to say.  Seriously, I'm dumbfounded.  Do people do not even recognize bs when they see it?  I wouldn't trust anything from this article...it has a clear agenda, it doesn't link any actual reliable quotes, it paraphrases quotes in such a way that they are not supported.  So people who are on board with this are either very lax about fact checking, or don't care what the real facts are.  And then add in some of the replies in this thread and there you have a big steaming pile of bigotry.

    Honestly I don't care if people consider me overly sensitive or too quick to call out bigotry.  I think SOMEONE needs to point it out.  People just go along with this crap every day.  Well I will not.  THINK people about what you are actually saying.

    What if the situation was that a Muslim wrote this article about Christians?  You would feel unfairly maligned and consider the author a bigot, right?  So why is it OK for this to be written, and here people are giving it validity.  Like it has some kind of meaning.  It's bullshit.

    I understand your passion and the way you express it.

    Yes, often people can recognize BS when they see it. There are people who are looking for confirmation of their own ignorance, too.

    However, IMO calling someone a bigot for not understanding bullshit when they see it doesn't help. = )

    The people who are focusing on the words of a few people are probably looking for fuel to fire up their hate wagon. Those people are the obvious bigots. If 'those people' are who you meant, then disregard paragraph three.

    = )



    Why don't people stop calling other people bigots for taking a different side?  In the case of the ad, it can be shown that BOTH Israels and Palestinians are at fault and extremists are fueling hate on BOTH sides.  Why don't people stop playing thought police on here and assuming they know the intention of the points and questions others make. 

     

     

  • Veni.Vidi.Vici.
    October 3, 2012 at 11:40 AM
    Probably for the exact same reason you seem to keep reiterating youself I suspect.

    Quoting 12hellokitty:



    Quoting Veni.Vidi.Vici.:




    Quoting stacymomof2:


    Yes, I didn't IMPLY that people who agreed with the OP are bigoted, I staight up said it.  Read that piece of crap again and tell me.  


    "You can't make this stuff up!"  When something like that is written in an article you can be assured that it is certainly not a straight news piece.  The headline is a lie.  Really, Dearborn is the "epicenter to squelch free speech."  And how about this little gem:


    his assault on the First Amendment in the name of the prophet Mohammed is a sad day in America — and confirms fears that Muslim-American activists do not understand the fundamental separation of church and state in the American Constitution.


    That line in the red is straight up bigotry.  It is speading the notion that Muslim AMERICAN activists are a bunch of anti-free speech zealots.  Really, Muslim American activists do not understand?  Just what is the basis for that sweeping generalization?  The words of a Christian minister?


    Furthermore the article that that one links to is even worse.  If you seriously can't see the bias and hyperbole in that article, I don't know what to say.  Seriously, I'm dumbfounded.  Do people do not even recognize bs when they see it?  I wouldn't trust anything from this article...it has a clear agenda, it doesn't link any actual reliable quotes, it paraphrases quotes in such a way that they are not supported.  So people who are on board with this are either very lax about fact checking, or don't care what the real facts are.  And then add in some of the replies in this thread and there you have a big steaming pile of bigotry.


    Honestly I don't care if people consider me overly sensitive or too quick to call out bigotry.  I think SOMEONE needs to point it out.  People just go along with this crap every day.  Well I will not.  THINK people about what you are actually saying.


    What if the situation was that a Muslim wrote this article about Christians?  You would feel unfairly maligned and consider the author a bigot, right?  So why is it OK for this to be written, and here people are giving it validity.  Like it has some kind of meaning.  It's bullshit.


    I understand your passion and the way you express it.


    Yes, often people can recognize BS when they see it. There are people who are looking for confirmation of their own ignorance, too.


    However, IMO calling someone a bigot for not understanding bullshit when they see it doesn't help. = )


    The people who are focusing on the words of a few people are probably looking for fuel to fire up their hate wagon. Those people are the obvious bigots. If 'those people' are who you meant, then disregard paragraph three.


    = )





    Why don't people stop calling other people bigots for taking a different side?  In the case of the ad, it can be shown that BOTH Israels and Palestinians are at fault and extremists are fueling hate on BOTH sides.  Why don't people stop playing thought police on here and assuming they know the intention of the points and questions others make. 


     


     

  • 12hellokitty
    October 3, 2012 at 11:46 AM

     

    I can understand that, but it seems you condemn speech you find offensive with more passion then you do the violent actions done in the name of your faith. 

    Quoting LivingIslam:

     I condemn any acts of violence done in the name of my faith.  I condemn it on both sides. 

    Quoting 12hellokitty:

     

    Quoting LivingIslam:

     That movie and those subway ads are created to dehumanize, villianize and entice hatred towards people who are Muslim.  They are meant to cultivate a climate of dislike and hatred towards us.  There are groups behind this with big agendas.  Look at the timing:  right during the week of 9/11 they bring out the movie and the subway ads.  There is a real agenda to keep the hate, distrust and dislike of Muslim Americans going. 

     

    Have you seen the movie?  Other then a 13 minute clip on youtube, I'm not aware of this movie having been marketed in the US.  Other then a handful of people no one had heard of the movie until it was used as propaganda by not only extremist, but sadly the Obama administration. 

    I have watched the 13 minute youtube clip and it's stupid.  People who find humor in mocking religions think the movie was stupid and not funny.  In fact I'm not aware of ANYONE who found the movie to be the lest bit funny or cleaver.  So I find it hard to believe this movie could be viewed as inciting people to react violently towards Muslims.

    As for the timing, the movie was made and had been on youtube since July, and the subway ads were submitted a year ago and just recently approved and put up by the MTA.   

    Have you ever thought that perhaps the Muslim extremists engaging in violence are the ones who benefit the most in promoting an atmosphere of hate, distrust and dislike of Muslims? 

     


  • LivingIslam
    October 3, 2012 at 12:06 PM

     Could you ellaborate?

    Quoting 12hellokitty:

     

    I can understand that, but it seems you condemn speech you find offensive with more passion then you do the violent actions done in the name of your faith. 

    Quoting LivingIslam:

     I condemn any acts of violence done in the name of my faith.  I condemn it on both sides. 

    Quoting 12hellokitty:

     

    Quoting LivingIslam:

     That movie and those subway ads are created to dehumanize, villianize and entice hatred towards people who are Muslim.  They are meant to cultivate a climate of dislike and hatred towards us.  There are groups behind this with big agendas.  Look at the timing:  right during the week of 9/11 they bring out the movie and the subway ads.  There is a real agenda to keep the hate, distrust and dislike of Muslim Americans going. 

     

    Have you seen the movie?  Other then a 13 minute clip on youtube, I'm not aware of this movie having been marketed in the US.  Other then a handful of people no one had heard of the movie until it was used as propaganda by not only extremist, but sadly the Obama administration. 

    I have watched the 13 minute youtube clip and it's stupid.  People who find humor in mocking religions think the movie was stupid and not funny.  In fact I'm not aware of ANYONE who found the movie to be the lest bit funny or cleaver.  So I find it hard to believe this movie could be viewed as inciting people to react violently towards Muslims.

    As for the timing, the movie was made and had been on youtube since July, and the subway ads were submitted a year ago and just recently approved and put up by the MTA.   

    Have you ever thought that perhaps the Muslim extremists engaging in violence are the ones who benefit the most in promoting an atmosphere of hate, distrust and dislike of Muslims? 

     

     

     

  • smalltowngal
    October 3, 2012 at 12:15 PM

    It seems like the violence only on one side is being focused on. You do a post about Muslims attacking Budhist temples, you get hundreds of replies. You don't hear about all the Muslims that helped their Budhists after the attack, just about the evil ones. You do a post about another mosque getting set on fire, it gets less than 10 replies. I am for free speech and if people want to put up a sign or put out a movie, that's fine with me. It would be nice if everyone speaking up first amendment rights would also help defend Muslims when they experience more negativity. It's obvious we're not going to let Muslims actually ask for help with out turning their plead into help against them. 

    Then again, maybe most people in this country support mosque burnings and harrassment against Muslims. I don't know anymore. 

    Quoting 12hellokitty:


    I can understand that, but it seems you condemn speech you find offensive with more passion then you do the violent actions done in the name of your faith. 

    Quoting LivingIslam:

     I condemn any acts of violence done in the name of my faith.  I condemn it on both sides. 




  • romalove
    October 3, 2012 at 12:16 PM

     

    I am trying to understand why we have to worry about hate speech causing others to act violent.  To the people speaking of this, are you worried that if we leave hate speech, those who use it will escalate it to violence?  Or are you concerned about the violent responses?

  • Meadowchik
    October 3, 2012 at 12:20 PM

    We can't make people do it.

     

    Quoting Moniker:

    Again, I agree but those are simply said but not so simply done. For people who come from a background that have only known theocracy, I imagine it's not  an easy transition to get to the point where they accept they " don't have the right to not be offended". They very much have the right in their culture. To get people to not judge others based on their religion? How are we really going to do that? 

    Quoting Meadowchik:

     I won't play hypotheticals, but I will say that crimes and violence have to be met with as swiftly and decisively as the law allows. Incompetence and lack of enforcement will only breed further distrust and chaos.

    IMO what we are seeing todayin our complicated world is the state-run Islam of past and present crashing head on with the secular Islam of the present and future (future, I hope.) It's a painful process. We have to get beyond the point of laws that criminalise blasphemy and infantilize grown adults.

    Right now, we need most Muslims to deny "the right to not be offended" and most non-Muslims to not judge based on religion.


     

     

  • smalltowngal
    October 3, 2012 at 12:23 PM


    Quoting romalove:

     

    I am trying to understand why we have to worry about hate speech causing others to act violent.  To the people speaking of this, are you worried that if we leave hate speech, those who use it will escalate it to violence?  Or are you concerned about the violent responses?

    Both. I think when you hear an excessive amount of negativity about a group. then people are more likely to take it to the next level and attack that group whether it be verbally on the streets or their places of worship. I think you can also have a situation like the kid that snaps after repeatedly being bullied. I think if someone is constantly told how evil they are then they are more likely to navigate towards extremism. 


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