maxswolfsuit
What should the repercussion be when parents...
Max
November 17, 2012 at 6:15 PM

don't support their child's education?

If a parent won't contact the school, attend conferences, monitor homework, get their child to school regularly, or return phone calls should there be a consequence for that?

Is this something CPS should get involved in or maybe the court system. Should involvement in education be tied to PA benefits? Or is it a parent's right to neglect their child's education?

Debate...

Replies

  • SpurgeonMom
    November 17, 2012 at 8:10 PM
    This is a touchy subject, I ama single mom to 4 kids I just got on assistance and up until 4 months ago I was married and we tag teamed all finances and the kids but he left us so I am working as many hours as possible and talking care of my kids full time. Some parents are lazy yes but I do not think that they should get punished for it. the kids will be the ones to fail unfortunately but no one should have a say in how you should or should not be raising your child
  • banana-bear
    November 17, 2012 at 8:19 PM
    A child has every right to a proper education, but it is usually not the parents who are at fault. The education system fails students more frequently than parents do. And say the parent is at fault, you cannot make someone care about their child's education. Circumstances can also hinder their involvement. What if the parent in an agoraphobic? What if the parent is blind or deaf? What if the parent works two jobs? What if the parent tries to work with their kid, but the kid doesn't cooperate? What if, what if, what if. There are a million reasons why some people cannot fit into the ideal you have set for what an involved parent should or should not do. I don't think it is the teacher's place to decide this matter. Too many teachers out there feel the need to parent their students; it's disgusting.

    Quoting maxswolfsuit:


    Quoting banana-bear:

    There is no debate, IMO. A parent has every right to be uninvolved in their child's education. There really are too many things that may factor into why they aren't involved. In the end, it's their child's future, not yours. Saying that there should be repercussions and that we should be alerting CPS is going overboard and wasting our resources.

    What about the child's right to learn the basic skills needed to be successful in adult life? Parents don't always advocate for their children. Shouldn't someone do it?

    If I stop taking an interest in my students' futures I would be a pretty piss poor teacher. Sorry, but that's just not going to happen. 

    Also, I didn't say anyone should alert CPS. In an earlier response I said it wouldn't work. I threw out a variety of scenarios to generate discussion. 

  • maxswolfsuit
    Max
    November 17, 2012 at 8:26 PM


    Quoting banana-bear:

    A child has every right to a proper education, but it is usually not the parents who are at fault. The education system fails students more frequently than parents do.When the education system is failing parents have options to step in. Home school, private school, zone waivers, charter schools, tutoring... there are so many things a parent can do. And say the parent is at fault, you cannot make someone care about their child's education.Obviously, hence my frustration Circumstances can also hinder their involvement. What if the parent in an agoraphobic? call on the phone, write notes What if the parent is blind or deaf? using voice service for phone calls or send emails. What if the parent works two jobs? communicate through letters or call during breaks or use email What if the parent tries to work with their kid, but the kid doesn't cooperate? let the teacher know that's what going and see what resources there are for help What if, what if, what if. You can what if all day long. I can tell you from years of experience that people in all the situations you've listed are actively involved in their children's educations. There are a million reasons why some people cannot fit into the ideal you have set for what an involved parent should or should not do. There are a millions excuses, but I haven't heard one valid reason not to do anything to support a child's education. I don't think it is the teacher's place to decide this matter. Too many teachers out there feel the need to parent their students; it's disgusting. If more parents were doing the parenting teachers wouldn't feel that way. I find it bizarre that you are disgusted by teachers have deep concern for students. I would find it disgusting if they just threw up their hand and went home at the end day not giving a shit. 

    Quoting maxswolfsuit:


    Quoting banana-bear:

    There is no debate, IMO. A parent has every right to be uninvolved in their child's education. There really are too many things that may factor into why they aren't involved. In the end, it's their child's future, not yours. Saying that there should be repercussions and that we should be alerting CPS is going overboard and wasting our resources.

    What about the child's right to learn the basic skills needed to be successful in adult life? Parents don't always advocate for their children. Shouldn't someone do it?

    If I stop taking an interest in my students' futures I would be a pretty piss poor teacher. Sorry, but that's just not going to happen. 

    Also, I didn't say anyone should alert CPS. In an earlier response I said it wouldn't work. I threw out a variety of scenarios to generate discussion. 


  • Hafsa1
    by Hafsa1
    November 17, 2012 at 8:29 PM
    While I can see that it would be needed, how could it really be enforced? What are the limits? How can you tell one parent its ok because they have an excuse but not necessarily agree with another parents excuse? some people may just feel they are not qualified and therefore leave it to the school who is qualified. And what about those that just don't care? Will it really change if there are punishments? Probably not, and therefore cost the schools/country so much extra in trying to enforce these punishments, and a whole lot of kids left in foster care because their parents didn't attend a meeting, which will probably be even worse for the child(ren).
  • Hafsa1
    by Hafsa1
    November 17, 2012 at 8:38 PM
    Also some parents feel that while school is important, the child could learn life lessons more at home.

    And just adding that I'm very involved with ds' education and correspond with his teacher every day. I just don't see it being a good thing for punishments for the parents if they chose not to do it


    Quoting Hafsa1:

    While I can see that it would be needed, how could it really be enforced? What are the limits? How can you tell one parent its ok because they have an excuse but not necessarily agree with another parents excuse? some people may just feel they are not qualified and therefore leave it to the school who is qualified. And what about those that just don't care? Will it really change if there are punishments? Probably not, and therefore cost the schools/country so much extra in trying to enforce these punishments, and a whole lot of kids left in foster care because their parents didn't attend a meeting, which will probably be even worse for the child(ren).

  • banana-bear
    November 17, 2012 at 8:43 PM
    All of those solutions are feasible to you, but they will not work for everyone. And while the reasons may not be valid to you, they are to the parents. Some people just do not see education as something of high importance. And you are misreading my words. I am disgusted by teachers who try to parent their students. Concern and parenting are two totally different things. I'm deeply concerned about my nieces and their upbringing. Do I try to step in and parent over my ex-SIL? Nope. They are not my kids therefore it is not my place to do so.

    Quoting maxswolfsuit:


    Quoting banana-bear:

    A child has every right to a proper education, but it is usually not the parents who are at fault. The education system fails students more frequently than parents do.When the education system is failing parents have options to step in. Home school, private school, zone waivers, charter schools, tutoring... there are so many things a parent can do. And say the parent is at fault, you cannot make someone care about their child's education.Obviously, hence my frustration Circumstances can also hinder their involvement. What if the parent in an agoraphobic? call on the phone, write notes What if the parent is blind or deaf? using voice service for phone calls or send emails. What if the parent works two jobs? communicate through letters or call during breaks or use email What if the parent tries to work with their kid, but the kid doesn't cooperate? let the teacher know that's what going and see what resources there are for help What if, what if, what if. You can what if all day long. I can tell you from years of experience that people in all the situations you've listed are actively involved in their children's educations. There are a million reasons why some people cannot fit into the ideal you have set for what an involved parent should or should not do. There are a millions excuses, but I haven't heard one valid reason not to do anything to support a child's education. I don't think it is the teacher's place to decide this matter. Too many teachers out there feel the need to parent their students; it's disgusting. If more parents were doing the parenting teachers wouldn't feel that way. I find it bizarre that you are disgusted by teachers have deep concern for students. I would find it disgusting if they just threw up their hand and went home at the end day not giving a shit. 



    Quoting maxswolfsuit:


    Quoting banana-bear:

    There is no debate, IMO. A parent has every right to be uninvolved in their child's education. There really are too many things that may factor into why they aren't involved. In the end, it's their child's future, not yours. Saying that there should be repercussions and that we should be alerting CPS is going overboard and wasting our resources.

    What about the child's right to learn the basic skills needed to be successful in adult life? Parents don't always advocate for their children. Shouldn't someone do it?

    If I stop taking an interest in my students' futures I would be a pretty piss poor teacher. Sorry, but that's just not going to happen. 

    Also, I didn't say anyone should alert CPS. In an earlier response I said it wouldn't work. I threw out a variety of scenarios to generate discussion. 


  • MsLogansMommy
    November 17, 2012 at 8:51 PM

    I am honestly on the fence on this one I know I have been very vocal in the past regarding people being judgemental and assuming certain things about a parent if they dont make it to a parent teacher conference because there are so many factors but the way op posted the question she left a lot of wiggle room for those factors. The way I am reading this post/question is what if any should be a consequence if a parent(s) do absolutely nothing make no attempt at all to communicate with the school or help with homework or anything. So I tried to think of any scenario that I could find this type of behavior justified and even a blind single mom working 2 jobs and going to school could feasibly make a 2 minute phone call to leave a voice mail for the teacher or take 2 minutes to write a quick note even do it while they are in class or on a break at work.

    Then on the flip side I was thinking what right does a teacher have to tell a parent that they HAVE to be involved (although I completely agree every parent SHOULD be involved but I don't think making it a REQUIREMENT is fair either). 

    I can only control what I do and I am EXTREMELY involved not just because I want my child to have the best education but for so many other reasons I want to make sure my dd is safe from predators, keep communication open, deter early sexual behavior, deter experimenting with drugs. I am involved in EVERY and I mean EVERY area of my childs life and I am a single mom I make it work because my dd is my #1 priority. Not everyone has the support I do and not everyone feels the same as I do and I get that and I respect that and I dont judge I just make sure im doing what i feel is right for me and mine  

  • maxswolfsuit
    Max
    November 17, 2012 at 8:54 PM

    You are reading the post correctly. 

    Quoting MsLogansMommy:

    I am honestly on the fence on this one I know I have been very vocal in the past regarding people being judgemental and assuming certain things about a parent if they dont make it to a parent teacher conference because there are so many factors but the way op posted the question she left a lot of wiggle room for those factors. The way I am reading this post/question is what if any should be a consequence if a parent(s) do absolutely nothing make no attempt at all to communicate with the school or help with homework or anything. So I tried to think of any scenario that I could find this type of behavior justified and even a blind single mom working 2 jobs and going to school could feasibly make a 2 minute phone call to leave a voice mail for the teacher or take 2 minute to write a quick not even do it while they are in class or on a break at work.

    Then on the flip side I was thinking what right does a teacher have to tell a parent that they HAVE to be involved (although I completely agree every parent SHOULD be involved but I don't think making it a REQUIREMENT is fair either). 

    I can only control what I do and I am EXTREMELY involved not just because I want my child to have the best education but for so many other reasons I want to make sure my dd is safe from predators, keep communication open, deter early sexual behavior, deter experimenting with drugs. I am involved in EVERY and I mean EVERY area of my childs life and I am a single mom I make it work because my dd is my #1 priority. Not everyone has the support I do and not everyone feels the same as I do and I get that and I respect that and I dont judge I just make sure im doing what i feel is right for me and mine  


  • maxswolfsuit
    Max
    November 17, 2012 at 8:59 PM


    You hit the nail on the head. It isn't about hardships or family situations. It's about what's important to parents and what's not.  Some parents don't think it's important for kids to be clean or well fed. Should we all just mind our own business about that too? Kids who lack basic academic skills have no opportunities for further education and very few job prospects. They are being crippled for life when they are denied the change to learn in school. 

    How is asking parent to support their child parenting the child? It's asking the parents to do it?

    Quoting banana-bear:

    All of those solutions are feasible to you, but they will not work for everyone. And while the reasons may not be valid to you, they are to the parents. Some people just do not see education as something of high importance. And you are misreading my words. I am disgusted by teachers who try to parent their students. Concern and parenting are two totally different things. I'm deeply concerned about my nieces and their upbringing. Do I try to step in and parent over my ex-SIL? Nope. They are not my kids therefore it is not my place to do so.

    Quoting maxswolfsuit:


    Quoting banana-bear:

    A child has every right to a proper education, but it is usually not the parents who are at fault. The education system fails students more frequently than parents do.When the education system is failing parents have options to step in. Home school, private school, zone waivers, charter schools, tutoring... there are so many things a parent can do. And say the parent is at fault, you cannot make someone care about their child's education.Obviously, hence my frustration Circumstances can also hinder their involvement. What if the parent in an agoraphobic? call on the phone, write notes What if the parent is blind or deaf? using voice service for phone calls or send emails. What if the parent works two jobs? communicate through letters or call during breaks or use email What if the parent tries to work with their kid, but the kid doesn't cooperate? let the teacher know that's what going and see what resources there are for help What if, what if, what if. You can what if all day long. I can tell you from years of experience that people in all the situations you've listed are actively involved in their children's educations. There are a million reasons why some people cannot fit into the ideal you have set for what an involved parent should or should not do. There are a millions excuses, but I haven't heard one valid reason not to do anything to support a child's education. I don't think it is the teacher's place to decide this matter. Too many teachers out there feel the need to parent their students; it's disgusting. If more parents were doing the parenting teachers wouldn't feel that way. I find it bizarre that you are disgusted by teachers have deep concern for students. I would find it disgusting if they just threw up their hand and went home at the end day not giving a shit. 



    Quoting maxswolfsuit:


    Quoting banana-bear:

    There is no debate, IMO. A parent has every right to be uninvolved in their child's education. There really are too many things that may factor into why they aren't involved. In the end, it's their child's future, not yours. Saying that there should be repercussions and that we should be alerting CPS is going overboard and wasting our resources.

    What about the child's right to learn the basic skills needed to be successful in adult life? Parents don't always advocate for their children. Shouldn't someone do it?

    If I stop taking an interest in my students' futures I would be a pretty piss poor teacher. Sorry, but that's just not going to happen. 

    Also, I didn't say anyone should alert CPS. In an earlier response I said it wouldn't work. I threw out a variety of scenarios to generate discussion. 



  • banana-bear
    November 17, 2012 at 9:51 PM


    Quoting maxswolfsuit:

    You hit the nail on the head. It isn't about hardships or family situations. (Sometimes) It's about what's important to parents and what's not.  Some parents don't think it's important for kids to be clean or well fed. Should we all just mind our own business about that too? (No, of course not, but that is neglect. You're comparing apples and oranges.) Kids who lack basic academic skills have no opportunities for further education and very few job prospects. They are being crippled for life when they are denied the change to learn in school. Unless of course the parents are teaching them how to run the family business or live in a farming community where they know their children will farm once they come of age. Education isn't top priority for every career. Sure, it is for the most lucrative ones. But I know plenty of people who married into wealth or have no need to work because they are supported by their spouse. Is that something I would choose? No. But it's not my place to say it isn't right for them either.

    How is asking parent to support their child parenting the child? It's asking the parents to do it? But you aren't merely asking them to support their child academically, you are wanting to penalize them for not doing it the way you see fit. And in doing so, you are effectively trying to parent their kids in this aspect of academic support.

    Look, I get that you're concerned and have good intentions but I just don't see how you think it's okay to penalize a parent for something that is not that big of a deal. My grandparents (who raised me from 1st-9th grade) were NEVER involved with my schooling. They never went to a parent/teacher conference, never spoke with my teachers about me or my progress, never helped with my homework, etc. I was in the gifted program and continued to stay in honors and AP classes after elementary school. Being an uninvolved parent does not equate to an academically failing student. I'm proof of that; as are my two brothers.