Elementary School Kids

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What do you think is the problem with the U.S. education system/student
September 15, 2012 at 10:31 PM

Comparatively speaking, the United States does not starve its education system of revenue. The U.S. is one of the leaders in spending on Education, and yet it's schools are rated "average" by international bodies.

The three-yearly OECD Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) report, which compares the knowledge and skills of 15-year-olds in 70 countries around the world, ranked the United States 14th out of 34 OECD countries for reading skills, 17th for science and a below-average 25th for mathematics.

Worse, out of 34 OECD countries, only 8 have a lower high school graduation rate. The United States' education outcomes most resemble Poland's, a nation that spends less than half on education than the U.S.


The U.S. spent an average of $10,615 per student in 2010.  Some districts spent over $18,000 (D.C., NY).  Obviously, we can't throw money at a problem like this. 

So what is the real issue here?

Update:  This post just blew up today.  It's going to take me a while to read all of this.

Replies

  • story0702
    September 24, 2012 at 7:38 PM

    I honestly feel that so much time is spent to pass these state tests that kids are not getting a well rounded education . 

  • 1plustwinsmommy
    September 24, 2012 at 9:36 PM
    Also, the data compared is not even. Many of those countries only report their top students. SpEd student data is not included. That skews the data. I would like to see an "apples to apples" type comparison.
  • christina259
    September 25, 2012 at 10:48 AM

    I think that both parents and teachers really need to know more about how the minds of both boys and girls work. I think only in fully understanding the individual child can you reach them even educationally. I hear that as a teacher you have training in child psychology but I don't know how much. I've never went to school for that and I'm not a teacher. I wonder just how much they really learn about it though? Girls are supposedly doing better in school than boys as of recent times and less boys are going off to college when they graduate. I've read its because school systems are set up to a girls way of thinking and functioning and our boys are getting left behind. This got me thinking about exactly what is the most effective way to get our kids motivated in school. You have to know what makes them tick to do that. Another thing I think is how much emphasis our society, communities and family members put on the importance of getting a good education. We may think our kids and teens are rebellious and would want to go against the adults views on the value of education. Even though they put on that front, what the adults continuously value around them does have a huge impact on  what they themselves think. It does get in there (inside their ways of thinking) if spoken about enough and if thier entire society believes and puts high priority and value on such things.

  • Amac29
    by Amac29
    September 27, 2012 at 12:30 PM
    @christina
    I never had any course or training on child psychology. Educational Psychology, yes, but just one and that was originally for Elem Ed. Teen Psychology is vastly different. I was eventually certified thru an alternate program but I'm almost certain this is not required in a traditional college program, maybe as an elective at best. I totally agree with your pt that kids will mirror the attitudes and dispositions of the people around them most. What sucks is that there are so many douches modeling crappy behavior and attitudes and they are multiplying faster than the non-douches. Perhaps the lack of original thought limits their actions to just primitive impulses and instincts. Whatever.

    I'm getting annoyed with the "opinion is the key word here" woman. Consider that US kids are, regardless of apples apples oranges cantelope comparisons and studies, poorly prepared for life outside of high school. They have limited skills (NCLB squashed Vo-Tech and FA electives in the majority of US high schools) and the 3R's skills are phenomenally weak overall. Shoot, the average reading level of a jury is 8th grade. People Magazine is written at that level. Socially, they are in general inept and with the advent of cell phones and the Internet, the interpersonal skills that an individual needed 35 years ago to navigate a task successfully had to be honed given the diverse social situations and people encountered along the way. The technology today has erased the need to work with and through so many other players and allows kids to by-pass encounters that would otherwise strengthen his abilities to positively interact with others on so many levels. A kid doesn't have to call a home any more and introduce himself to the Mom on the other end of the line, "Hello, Mrs. Smith, this is Carol. May I pls..." manners are lost, boundaries blur and the multitude of situations that a kid could encounter to add to his repertoire of experiences is drastically reduced and detrimentally screw deelopment and maturity. Social Networks give the illusion of intimacy and emotions are diluted to superficial broth. Loyalty and perseverance and commitment shift and alter like fb status updates and allow for a filterless deluge of I'll mannered, profane bs. A classroom may be the last and only place a kid can hone his social skills and if that environment were homogenized like you obviously prefer, well, then he's screwed academically and socially and that blows for us all. A diverse classroom is best for all. I'm right and you are wrong and that's not opinion.
  • christina259
    October 12, 2012 at 7:10 PM

     

    Quoting Amac29:

    @christina
    I never had any course or training on child psychology. Educational Psychology, yes, but just one and that was originally for Elem Ed. Teen Psychology is vastly different. I was eventually certified thru an alternate program but I'm almost certain this is not required in a traditional college program, maybe as an elective at best. I totally agree with your pt that kids will mirror the attitudes and dispositions of the people around them most. What sucks is that there are so many douches modeling crappy behavior and attitudes and they are multiplying faster than the non-douches. Perhaps the lack of original thought limits their actions to just primitive impulses and instincts. Whatever.

    I'm getting annoyed with the "opinion is the key word here" woman. Consider that US kids are, regardless of apples apples oranges cantelope comparisons and studies, poorly prepared for life outside of high school. They have limited skills (NCLB squashed Vo-Tech and FA electives in the majority of US high schools) and the 3R's skills are phenomenally weak overall. Shoot, the average reading level of a jury is 8th grade. People Magazine is written at that level. Socially, they are in general inept and with the advent of cell phones and the Internet, the interpersonal skills that an individual needed 35 years ago to navigate a task successfully had to be honed given the diverse social situations and people encountered along the way. The technology today has erased the need to work with and through so many other players and allows kids to by-pass encounters that would otherwise strengthen his abilities to positively interact with others on so many levels. A kid doesn't have to call a home any more and introduce himself to the Mom on the other end of the line, "Hello, Mrs. Smith, this is Carol. May I pls..." manners are lost, boundaries blur and the multitude of situations that a kid could encounter to add to his repertoire of experiences is drastically reduced and detrimentally screw deelopment and maturity. Social Networks give the illusion of intimacy and emotions are diluted to superficial broth. Loyalty and perseverance and commitment shift and alter like fb status updates and allow for a filterless deluge of I'll mannered, profane bs. A classroom may be the last and only place a kid can hone his social skills and if that environment were homogenized like you obviously prefer, well, then he's screwed academically and socially and that blows for us all. A diverse classroom is best for all. I'm right and you are wrong and that's not opinion.

     I didn't mean to come off the wrong way in my last reply. In re- reading what I've written, I realize I may have sounded offensive to teachers. I want to apologize for that. In no way do I want to say anything bad about a teacher. I admire what teachers do and have thought of being a teacher myself. I'm not saying its a problem with the teachers. Its a fact though that boys and girls minds operate differently. Is it not? I'm simply saying that this needs to be realized. I'm not saying that we should bend to the kids will so they don't know how to adapt socially and I'm not saying teachers are at fault. The tone of your reply sounded as if you were offended. I'm glad you feel right and you made some great points that I completly agree with but I think you missed my point. Maybe I'm wrong about trying to have our school systems understand the way our boys think. I'm not saying I have the answers. Its just something I've wondered about due to other things I have read about. It seems like something worth considering. Our boys are falling behind academically more so than girls. Whats the reason for that I wonder?

  • christina259
    October 12, 2012 at 7:19 PM

     

    Quoting Amac29:

    @christina
    I never had any course or training on child psychology. Educational Psychology, yes, but just one and that was originally for Elem Ed. Teen Psychology is vastly different. I was eventually certified thru an alternate program but I'm almost certain this is not required in a traditional college program, maybe as an elective at best. I totally agree with your pt that kids will mirror the attitudes and dispositions of the people around them most. What sucks is that there are so many douches modeling crappy behavior and attitudes and they are multiplying faster than the non-douches. Perhaps the lack of original thought limits their actions to just primitive impulses and instincts. Whatever.

    I'm getting annoyed with the "opinion is the key word here" woman. Consider that US kids are, regardless of apples apples oranges cantelope comparisons and studies, poorly prepared for life outside of high school. They have limited skills (NCLB squashed Vo-Tech and FA electives in the majority of US high schools) and the 3R's skills are phenomenally weak overall. Shoot, the average reading level of a jury is 8th grade. People Magazine is written at that level. Socially, they are in general inept and with the advent of cell phones and the Internet, the interpersonal skills that an individual needed 35 years ago to navigate a task successfully had to be honed given the diverse social situations and people encountered along the way. The technology today has erased the need to work with and through so many other players and allows kids to by-pass encounters that would otherwise strengthen his abilities to positively interact with others on so many levels. A kid doesn't have to call a home any more and introduce himself to the Mom on the other end of the line, "Hello, Mrs. Smith, this is Carol. May I pls..." manners are lost, boundaries blur and the multitude of situations that a kid could encounter to add to his repertoire of experiences is drastically reduced and detrimentally screw deelopment and maturity. Social Networks give the illusion of intimacy and emotions are diluted to superficial broth. Loyalty and perseverance and commitment shift and alter like fb status updates and allow for a filterless deluge of I'll mannered, profane bs. A classroom may be the last and only place a kid can hone his social skills and if that environment were homogenized like you obviously prefer, well, then he's screwed academically and socially and that blows for us all. A diverse classroom is best for all. I'm right and you are wrong and that's not opinion.

     I'm not saying to seperate boys and girls.I don't think that would be good either. I suppose what you mean by "a diverse classroom" is a mix of boys and girls. I'm just saying a better understanding of how each mind works. I say this with no knowledge of how to teach kids so if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Its just something I wonder about due to what I see going on with not only my son, but others who have boys combined with some things I've been reading. So I get why you see it as not good to have all boys or all girls. Do you see what I'm saying about maybe boys need something different than girls when it comes to motivation or am I wrong about that?

  • Amac29
    by Amac29
    October 14, 2012 at 3:16 PM
    Sorry you misunderstood and I actually wasn't referring to you as the annoying person. By different I meant skill levels and intelligences. Tracking by academic level stunts a class and learning. I automatically assume a co-Ed classroom.


    Quoting christina259:

     


    Quoting Amac29:

    @christina
    I never had any course or training on child psychology. Educational Psychology, yes, but just one and that was originally for Elem Ed. Teen Psychology is vastly different. I was eventually certified thru an alternate program but I'm almost certain this is not required in a traditional college program, maybe as an elective at best. I totally agree with your pt that kids will mirror the attitudes and dispositions of the people around them most. What sucks is that there are so many douches modeling crappy behavior and attitudes and they are multiplying faster than the non-douches. Perhaps the lack of original thought limits their actions to just primitive impulses and instincts. Whatever.

    I'm getting annoyed with the "opinion is the key word here" woman. Consider that US kids are, regardless of apples apples oranges cantelope comparisons and studies, poorly prepared for life outside of high school. They have limited skills (NCLB squashed Vo-Tech and FA electives in the majority of US high schools) and the 3R's skills are phenomenally weak overall. Shoot, the average reading level of a jury is 8th grade. People Magazine is written at that level. Socially, they are in general inept and with the advent of cell phones and the Internet, the interpersonal skills that an individual needed 35 years ago to navigate a task successfully had to be honed given the diverse social situations and people encountered along the way. The technology today has erased the need to work with and through so many other players and allows kids to by-pass encounters that would otherwise strengthen his abilities to positively interact with others on so many levels. A kid doesn't have to call a home any more and introduce himself to the Mom on the other end of the line, "Hello, Mrs. Smith, this is Carol. May I pls..." manners are lost, boundaries blur and the multitude of situations that a kid could encounter to add to his repertoire of experiences is drastically reduced and detrimentally screw deelopment and maturity. Social Networks give the illusion of intimacy and emotions are diluted to superficial broth. Loyalty and perseverance and commitment shift and alter like fb status updates and allow for a filterless deluge of I'll mannered, profane bs. A classroom may be the last and only place a kid can hone his social skills and if that environment were homogenized like you obviously prefer, well, then he's screwed academically and socially and that blows for us all. A diverse classroom is best for all. I'm right and you are wrong and that's not opinion.

     I'm not saying to seperate boys and girls.I don't think that would be good either. I suppose what you mean by "a diverse classroom" is a mix of boys and girls. I'm just saying a better understanding of how each mind works. I say this with no knowledge of how to teach kids so if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Its just something I wonder about due to what I see going on with not only my son, but others who have boys combined with some things I've been reading. So I get why you see it as not good to have all boys or all girls. Do you see what I'm saying about maybe boys need something different than girls when it comes to motivation or am I wrong about that?


  • Amac29
    by Amac29
    October 14, 2012 at 3:21 PM
    I do see what you are saying and its been an ongoing dilemma in education. Previous studies on gender equity during my elementary years showed that in math and science classes of the 70's and 80's , makes were encouraged to succeed more and given more time with teacher with questions and explanations. The think tank people found that this bias had created a culture of boys being strong in math and girls being encouraged to explore non-math careers. So yes I get and to this I say, a good teacher finds out what each of students responds best to and will individualize learning fr that kid--make or female. But yes men as boys do learn differently fo sho!
  • Amac29
    by Amac29
    October 14, 2012 at 3:26 PM
    Christina- you are NOT to whom I referred as the "opinion" woman and sorry I didn't make this more clear rather than just leaving a blank space between paragraphs. You cool and no worries. No offense taken by this teacher and found your concerns thought provoking and thoughtful. Sorry I muddied your thinking:/
  • Jessica198027
    December 12, 2012 at 12:25 AM

    The lack of parent involvement for one, some schools who have subs who are rude to students and have to have subs for long time until get a reg teach and some subs don't even know how to do the work that the kids are being taught, so better subs needed, teachers who are not going to pack up andmove in the middle of the year, funding a big issue, not enough writing, to much computer work and copied papers to fill in bubbles rather than write the work on sheet of paper, not being taught cursive, being passed because teach not want to deal with problem kids or invest time into kids who have learning probs., no after school disapline anymore, no having to get up in front of whole class and write on chalk board, I will not do ( insert what child did) a certain number of times or until board is full from top to bottom and side to side. Kids have it too easy today, very little homework even in higher grades. Kids are sent home when they act up rather than made to stay and work and then stay after school as well for and hr or 2. My daughter refused to do work in 1st grade that teach knew she could do, so teach told me to take boys home and she would bring daughter home when she was done with work. So I proceeded to walk boys home and before I even left the school yard daughter had her work done and done right in 5 min. She did not want to stay and have teach bring her home so she finished. If did this more often kids would get their work and behavior in check real quick I think.

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