Natural Birth & Parenting

Replies

  • tabi_cat1023
    August 30, 2012 at 9:51 PM

    I think you are also missing the fact that NOT BFing has risks too...what about those risks?

    Quoting anime.princess:

    What about that less than 5%? It can still pass. 

    Quoting MaryJarrett:

    *Below* 5%. :) Let's read all of it.  

    You are saying it *will* still pass. That IS false. It has a 95% chance of NOT passing. I said that in my post (which is probably where you are getting it from since you seem not so keen on checking).

    That is your opinion that it isn't worth it.

    Based on all the potential risks of formula usage, it would be my opinion (which is supported by the World Health Organization as linked below) to breastfeed. I tend to stick with the pros on this stuff. Best practice advice based in facts and studies, not on myths and old ill conceived theories. There are a lot of myths in the realm of pathology, especially the pathology of something misunderstood as HIV/AIDs. A lot of people believe that HIV and AIDs are the same thing, but you can have HIV for years without having AIDs. AIDs is only when your CD4 drops below 200. We're here to spread the most recent developments in the breastfeeding world. What you are saying is outdated and untrue. Good luck to you! :)  

    Quoting anime.princess:

    It is not 100% safe anyways; 95% safe, perhaps but not worth the risk.  It will still pass, regardless of the medication taken.   Looks like that part of the article YOU didn't read it.

    Quoting MaryJarrett:

    Did you read it? They are being treated with antiretroviral medications. These medications are also past through the breastmilk, which combines with breastmilk's natural ability to fight diseases. The recommendation before this was for mothers with HIV/AIDs to breastfeed exclusively for 6 months, then once solids were introduced to switch to formula. That goes along the same basis that breastmilk does help STOP the virus. Those studies showed that as long as the baby was only recieving mothers milk the baby was protected. This recent study has shown that even once solids are introduced the baby is still protected.
    Not treated mothers transfer rates to children are between 15-45%. Treated mothers transfer rates are below 5%. It is fairly safe to breast feed with HIV/AIDs.
    Not only that but scientists are researching ways to heat treat human milk so that it will be free of diseases, including HIV/AIDs. This is still new and in testing stages. I pray that it works. Yes, it will kill some of the goodness of the human milk BUT it would be just the same as scorching milk with excess lipase to prevent breakdown during storage. Still better nutritionally that formula, so to say.   

    Also, you mention Hepatitis, there are multiple strains for Hep. Here is what WHO has to say on Hep B. 

    :
    "Risk of transmission by breastfeeding 

    Breastfeeding has been suggested as an additional mechanism by which infants may acquire 

    HBV infection, because small amounts of Hepatitis B surface antigen (HBsAg) have been 

    detected in some samples of breastmilk. However, there is no evidence that breastfeeding 

    increases the risk of mother to child transmission. A follow up study of 147 infants born to 

    mothers known to be carriers of HBV in Taiwan (4) found similar rates of HBV infection in 92 

    children who were breastfed compared to 55 who were bottle fed. A study in Britain, involving 

    126 subjects, also showed no additional risk for breastfed versus non breastfed infants of carrier 

    mothers (5). This study included the measurement of HBeAg status of the mothers, but found no 

    association between maternal e-antigen status and transmission rates. These findings suggest 

    strongly that any risk of transmission associated with breastmilk is negligible compared to the 

    high risk of exposure to maternal blood and body fluids at birth. Experts on hepatitis, however, 

    do have concerns that breast pathology such as cracked or bleeding nipples or lesions with serous 

    exudates could expose the infant to infectious doses of HBV. " 



     

    Quoting anime.princess:

    The virus can be passed throught the milk.  I don't know how the fuck they came up with those studies.  

    Quoting MaryJarrett:

    So the World Health Organization recommending that even mother's with HIV/AIDs breastfeed is what?

    http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2009/world_aids_20091130/en/index.html


    "In 2006, WHO recommended that ARVs be provided to HIV-positive pregnant women in the third trimester (beginning at 28 weeks) to prevent mother-to-child transmission of HIV. At the time, there was insufficient evidence on the protective effect of ARVs during breastfeeding. Since then, several clinical trials have shown the efficacy of ARVs in preventing transmission to the infant while breastfeeding. The 2009 recommendations promote the use of ARVs earlier in pregnancy, starting at 14 weeks and continuing through the end of the breastfeeding period.

    WHO now recommends that breastfeeding continue until the infant is 12 months of age, provided the HIV-positive mother or baby is taking ARVs during that period. This will reduce the risk of HIV transmission and improve the infant's chance of survival.

    "In the new recommendations, we are sending a clear message that breastfeeding is a good option for every baby, even those with HIV-positive mothers, when they have access to ARVs," said Daisy Mafubelu, WHO's Assistant Director General for Family and Community Health."


    Quoting anime.princess:

    None of those outlets are reliable sources.  Just pick a basic biology book that talks about viruses.  Don't try to feed me with your lack of knowledge.  


    Quoting tabi_cat1023:

    Not according to UNC CHapel Hill's recent studies

    http://www.naturalnews.com/036382_breast_milk_AIDS_HIV.html

    http://now.msn.com/breast-milk-has-superpowers-even-you-didnt-realize

    This is current research from reliable sources


    Quoting anime.princess:

    You're are sooooo wrong.  That virus passes through the milk; it is not destroyed.  


    Quoting tabi_cat1023:

    Actually its being shown that bfing with hiv can protect babies..that bm kills the virus so i dunno there





    Quoting anime.princess:

    That's good, as long as she's not HIV+ or has Hepatits. 












  • tabi_cat1023
    August 30, 2012 at 9:53 PM

    What up with the cursing? seriously can you not have a conversation without rudeness, namecalling and vulgar language? Its one thing to have the opinion for YOU and YOUR child its not your choice, its another to say mean things about people who would choose differently

    Quoting anime.princess:

    The virus can be passed throught the milk.  I don't know how the fuck they came up with those studies.  

    Quoting MaryJarrett:

    So the World Health Organization recommending that even mother's with HIV/AIDs breastfeed is what?

    http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2009/world_aids_20091130/en/index.html


    "In 2006, WHO recommended that ARVs be provided to HIV-positive pregnant women in the third trimester (beginning at 28 weeks) to prevent mother-to-child transmission of HIV. At the time, there was insufficient evidence on the protective effect of ARVs during breastfeeding. Since then, several clinical trials have shown the efficacy of ARVs in preventing transmission to the infant while breastfeeding. The 2009 recommendations promote the use of ARVs earlier in pregnancy, starting at 14 weeks and continuing through the end of the breastfeeding period.

    WHO now recommends that breastfeeding continue until the infant is 12 months of age, provided the HIV-positive mother or baby is taking ARVs during that period. This will reduce the risk of HIV transmission and improve the infant's chance of survival.

    "In the new recommendations, we are sending a clear message that breastfeeding is a good option for every baby, even those with HIV-positive mothers, when they have access to ARVs," said Daisy Mafubelu, WHO's Assistant Director General for Family and Community Health."


    Quoting anime.princess:

    None of those outlets are reliable sources.  Just pick a basic biology book that talks about viruses.  Don't try to feed me with your lack of knowledge.  


    Quoting tabi_cat1023:

    Not according to UNC CHapel Hill's recent studies

    http://www.naturalnews.com/036382_breast_milk_AIDS_HIV.html

    http://now.msn.com/breast-milk-has-superpowers-even-you-didnt-realize

    This is current research from reliable sources


    Quoting anime.princess:

    You're are sooooo wrong.  That virus passes through the milk; it is not destroyed.  


    Quoting tabi_cat1023:

    Actually its being shown that bfing with hiv can protect babies..that bm kills the virus so i dunno there





    Quoting anime.princess:

    That's good, as long as she's not HIV+ or has Hepatits. 








  • chelseamcnorman
    August 30, 2012 at 10:21 PM

    Hopefully she'll keep it up. If she can get past the first couple months, then the pain she was dreading should be over. 

  • chelseamcnorman
    August 30, 2012 at 10:56 PM

    I agree. RESPECTFUL debate--even when we disagree--helps all of us become better-informed so that we can have a broader perspective when making decisions about out children. Disrespectfulness can only serve to silence people from posting potentially-enlightening information, which in turn is a disservice to us all. After all, isn't information and community support the purpose of cafemom to begin with?)

    Quoting tabi_cat1023:

    What up with the cursing? seriously can you not have a conversation without rudeness, namecalling and vulgar language? Its one thing to have the opinion for YOU and YOUR child its not your choice, its another to say mean things about people who would choose differently

    Quoting anime.princess:

    The virus can be passed throught the milk.  I don't know how the fuck they came up with those studies.  

    Quoting MaryJarrett:

    So the World Health Organization recommending that even mother's with HIV/AIDs breastfeed is what?

    http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2009/world_aids_20091130/en/index.html


    "In 2006, WHO recommended that ARVs be provided to HIV-positive pregnant women in the third trimester (beginning at 28 weeks) to prevent mother-to-child transmission of HIV. At the time, there was insufficient evidence on the protective effect of ARVs during breastfeeding. Since then, several clinical trials have shown the efficacy of ARVs in preventing transmission to the infant while breastfeeding. The 2009 recommendations promote the use of ARVs earlier in pregnancy, starting at 14 weeks and continuing through the end of the breastfeeding period.

    WHO now recommends that breastfeeding continue until the infant is 12 months of age, provided the HIV-positive mother or baby is taking ARVs during that period. This will reduce the risk of HIV transmission and improve the infant's chance of survival.

    "In the new recommendations, we are sending a clear message that breastfeeding is a good option for every baby, even those with HIV-positive mothers, when they have access to ARVs," said Daisy Mafubelu, WHO's Assistant Director General for Family and Community Health."


    Quoting anime.princess:

    None of those outlets are reliable sources.  Just pick a basic biology book that talks about viruses.  Don't try to feed me with your lack of knowledge.  


    Quoting tabi_cat1023:

    Not according to UNC CHapel Hill's recent studies

    http://www.naturalnews.com/036382_breast_milk_AIDS_HIV.html

    http://now.msn.com/breast-milk-has-superpowers-even-you-didnt-realize

    This is current research from reliable sources


    Quoting anime.princess:

    You're are sooooo wrong.  That virus passes through the milk; it is not destroyed.  


    Quoting tabi_cat1023:

    Actually its being shown that bfing with hiv can protect babies..that bm kills the virus so i dunno there





    Quoting anime.princess:

    That's good, as long as she's not HIV+ or has Hepatits. 









  • MaryJarrett
    August 30, 2012 at 11:45 PM
    What if those 95% are the ones who suffers necrotising enterocolitis, asthma attack, SIDs, childhood leukemia, chronic ear infections, eczema, upper respiratory infections, diabetes, etc from being *unnecessarily* formula fed?
    Why consider not breastfeeding a safe method? It is not risk free to skip out on mother's own milk. It is worth it to weigh the risks (5%) vs the benefit (95%).

    Now I realize you aren't jumping straight to formula, as the child could get donor milk. That would be *great*, but the advantages of getting mothers own milk should never be discredited, especially when it is the best practice advice from the largest medical organization. The WHO lists the hierarchy of infant feed as (1) mother's milk from mother's breast (2) mother's milk in any way (3) human milk any way (4 and lastly) formula.
    But look at how hard it is to get human milk. Use and popularity of donor milk has gone up dramatically lately, but it's still not enough as of yet.


    Quoting anime.princess:

    What about that less than 5%? It can still pass. 


    Quoting MaryJarrett:

    *Below* 5%. :) Let's read all of it.  

    You are saying it *will* still pass. That IS false. It has a 95% chance of NOT passing. I said that in my post (which is probably where you are getting it from since you seem not so keen on checking).

    That is your opinion that it isn't worth it.

    Based on all the potential risks of formula usage, it would be my opinion (which is supported by the World Health Organization as linked below) to breastfeed. I tend to stick with the pros on this stuff. Best practice advice based in facts and studies, not on myths and old ill conceived theories. There are a lot of myths in the realm of pathology, especially the pathology of something misunderstood as HIV/AIDs. A lot of people believe that HIV and AIDs are the same thing, but you can have HIV for years without having AIDs. AIDs is only when your CD4 drops below 200. We're here to spread the most recent developments in the breastfeeding world. What you are saying is outdated and untrue. Good luck to you! :)  

    Quoting anime.princess:

    It is not 100% safe anyways; 95% safe, perhaps but not worth the risk.  It will still pass, regardless of the medication taken.   Looks like that part of the article YOU didn't read it.


    Quoting MaryJarrett:

    Did you read it? They are being treated with antiretroviral medications. These medications are also past through the breastmilk, which combines with breastmilk's natural ability to fight diseases. The recommendation before this was for mothers with HIV/AIDs to breastfeed exclusively for 6 months, then once solids were introduced to switch to formula. That goes along the same basis that breastmilk does help STOP the virus. Those studies showed that as long as the baby was only recieving mothers milk the baby was protected. This recent study has shown that even once solids are introduced the baby is still protected.
    Not treated mothers transfer rates to children are between 15-45%. Treated mothers transfer rates are below 5%. It is fairly safe to breast feed with HIV/AIDs.
    Not only that but scientists are researching ways to heat treat human milk so that it will be free of diseases, including HIV/AIDs. This is still new and in testing stages. I pray that it works. Yes, it will kill some of the goodness of the human milk BUT it would be just the same as scorching milk with excess lipase to prevent breakdown during storage. Still better nutritionally that formula, so to say.   

    Also, you mention Hepatitis, there are multiple strains for Hep. Here is what WHO has to say on Hep B. 

    :
    "Risk of transmission by breastfeeding 


    Breastfeeding has been suggested as an additional mechanism by which infants may acquire 


    HBV infection, because small amounts of Hepatitis B surface antigen (HBsAg) have been 


    detected in some samples of breastmilk. However, there is no evidence that breastfeeding 


    increases the risk of mother to child transmission. A follow up study of 147 infants born to 


    mothers known to be carriers of HBV in Taiwan (4) found similar rates of HBV infection in 92 


    children who were breastfed compared to 55 who were bottle fed. A study in Britain, involving 


    126 subjects, also showed no additional risk for breastfed versus non breastfed infants of carrier 


    mothers (5). This study included the measurement of HBeAg status of the mothers, but found no 


    association between maternal e-antigen status and transmission rates. These findings suggest 


    strongly that any risk of transmission associated with breastmilk is negligible compared to the 


    high risk of exposure to maternal blood and body fluids at birth. Experts on hepatitis, however, 


    do have concerns that breast pathology such as cracked or bleeding nipples or lesions with serous 


    exudates could expose the infant to infectious doses of HBV. " 



     

    Quoting anime.princess:

    The virus can be passed throught the milk.  I don't know how the fuck they came up with those studies.  


    Quoting MaryJarrett:

    So the World Health Organization recommending that even mother's with HIV/AIDs breastfeed is what?



    http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2009/world_aids_20091130/en/index.html





    "In 2006, WHO recommended that ARVs be provided to HIV-positive pregnant women in the third trimester (beginning at 28 weeks) to prevent mother-to-child transmission of HIV. At the time, there was insufficient evidence on the protective effect of ARVs during breastfeeding. Since then, several clinical trials have shown the efficacy of ARVs in preventing transmission to the infant while breastfeeding. The 2009 recommendations promote the use of ARVs earlier in pregnancy, starting at 14 weeks and continuing through the end of the breastfeeding period.



    WHO now recommends that breastfeeding continue until the infant is 12 months of age, provided the HIV-positive mother or baby is taking ARVs during that period. This will reduce the risk of HIV transmission and improve the infant's chance of survival.



    "In the new recommendations, we are sending a clear message that breastfeeding is a good option for every baby, even those with HIV-positive mothers, when they have access to ARVs," said Daisy Mafubelu, WHO's Assistant Director General for Family and Community Health."





    Quoting anime.princess:

    None of those outlets are reliable sources.  Just pick a basic biology book that talks about viruses.  Don't try to feed me with your lack of knowledge.  



    Quoting tabi_cat1023:

    Not according to UNC CHapel Hill's recent studies

    http://www.naturalnews.com/036382_breast_milk_AIDS_HIV.html

    http://now.msn.com/breast-milk-has-superpowers-even-you-didnt-realize

    This is current research from reliable sources



    Quoting anime.princess:

    You're are sooooo wrong.  That virus passes through the milk; it is not destroyed.  



    Quoting tabi_cat1023:

    Actually its being shown that bfing with hiv can protect babies..that bm kills the virus so i dunno there








    Quoting anime.princess:

    That's good, as long as she's not HIV+ or has Hepatits. 












  • anime.princess
    August 31, 2012 at 1:45 AM

    Wow, you sure want to find a way to prove that you're right even when you aren't.  You should say that taking antiretroviral medications REDUCES the chance, but it will not eliminate it.  Why is that hard to understand it?

    Quoting MaryJarrett:

    What if those 95% are the ones who suffers necrotising enterocolitis, asthma attack, SIDs, childhood leukemia, chronic ear infections, eczema, upper respiratory infections, diabetes, etc from being *unnecessarily* formula fed?
    Why consider not breastfeeding a safe method? It is not risk free to skip out on mother's own milk. It is worth it to weigh the risks (5%) vs the benefit (95%).

    Now I realize you aren't jumping straight to formula, as the child could get donor milk. That would be *great*, but the advantages of getting mothers own milk should never be discredited, especially when it is the best practice advice from the largest medical organization. The WHO lists the hierarchy of infant feed as (1) mother's milk from mother's breast (2) mother's milk in any way (3) human milk any way (4 and lastly) formula.
    But look at how hard it is to get human milk. Use and popularity of donor milk has gone up dramatically lately, but it's still not enough as of yet.


    Quoting anime.princess:

    What about that less than 5%? It can still pass. 


    Quoting MaryJarrett:

    *Below* 5%. :) Let's read all of it.  

    You are saying it *will* still pass. That IS false. It has a 95% chance of NOT passing. I said that in my post (which is probably where you are getting it from since you seem not so keen on checking).

    That is your opinion that it isn't worth it.

    Based on all the potential risks of formula usage, it would be my opinion (which is supported by the World Health Organization as linked below) to breastfeed. I tend to stick with the pros on this stuff. Best practice advice based in facts and studies, not on myths and old ill conceived theories. There are a lot of myths in the realm of pathology, especially the pathology of something misunderstood as HIV/AIDs. A lot of people believe that HIV and AIDs are the same thing, but you can have HIV for years without having AIDs. AIDs is only when your CD4 drops below 200. We're here to spread the most recent developments in the breastfeeding world. What you are saying is outdated and untrue. Good luck to you! :)  

    Quoting anime.princess:

    It is not 100% safe anyways; 95% safe, perhaps but not worth the risk.  It will still pass, regardless of the medication taken.   Looks like that part of the article YOU didn't read it.


    Quoting MaryJarrett:

    Did you read it? They are being treated with antiretroviral medications. These medications are also past through the breastmilk, which combines with breastmilk's natural ability to fight diseases. The recommendation before this was for mothers with HIV/AIDs to breastfeed exclusively for 6 months, then once solids were introduced to switch to formula. That goes along the same basis that breastmilk does help STOP the virus. Those studies showed that as long as the baby was only recieving mothers milk the baby was protected. This recent study has shown that even once solids are introduced the baby is still protected.
    Not treated mothers transfer rates to children are between 15-45%. Treated mothers transfer rates are below 5%. It is fairly safe to breast feed with HIV/AIDs.
    Not only that but scientists are researching ways to heat treat human milk so that it will be free of diseases, including HIV/AIDs. This is still new and in testing stages. I pray that it works. Yes, it will kill some of the goodness of the human milk BUT it would be just the same as scorching milk with excess lipase to prevent breakdown during storage. Still better nutritionally that formula, so to say.   

    Also, you mention Hepatitis, there are multiple strains for Hep. Here is what WHO has to say on Hep B. 

    :
    "Risk of transmission by breastfeeding 


    Breastfeeding has been suggested as an additional mechanism by which infants may acquire 


    HBV infection, because small amounts of Hepatitis B surface antigen (HBsAg) have been 


    detected in some samples of breastmilk. However, there is no evidence that breastfeeding 


    increases the risk of mother to child transmission. A follow up study of 147 infants born to 


    mothers known to be carriers of HBV in Taiwan (4) found similar rates of HBV infection in 92 


    children who were breastfed compared to 55 who were bottle fed. A study in Britain, involving 


    126 subjects, also showed no additional risk for breastfed versus non breastfed infants of carrier 


    mothers (5). This study included the measurement of HBeAg status of the mothers, but found no 


    association between maternal e-antigen status and transmission rates. These findings suggest 


    strongly that any risk of transmission associated with breastmilk is negligible compared to the 


    high risk of exposure to maternal blood and body fluids at birth. Experts on hepatitis, however, 


    do have concerns that breast pathology such as cracked or bleeding nipples or lesions with serous 


    exudates could expose the infant to infectious doses of HBV. " 



     

    Quoting anime.princess:

    The virus can be passed throught the milk.  I don't know how the fuck they came up with those studies.  


    Quoting MaryJarrett:

    So the World Health Organization recommending that even mother's with HIV/AIDs breastfeed is what?



    http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2009/world_aids_20091130/en/index.html





    "In 2006, WHO recommended that ARVs be provided to HIV-positive pregnant women in the third trimester (beginning at 28 weeks) to prevent mother-to-child transmission of HIV. At the time, there was insufficient evidence on the protective effect of ARVs during breastfeeding. Since then, several clinical trials have shown the efficacy of ARVs in preventing transmission to the infant while breastfeeding. The 2009 recommendations promote the use of ARVs earlier in pregnancy, starting at 14 weeks and continuing through the end of the breastfeeding period.



    WHO now recommends that breastfeeding continue until the infant is 12 months of age, provided the HIV-positive mother or baby is taking ARVs during that period. This will reduce the risk of HIV transmission and improve the infant's chance of survival.



    "In the new recommendations, we are sending a clear message that breastfeeding is a good option for every baby, even those with HIV-positive mothers, when they have access to ARVs," said Daisy Mafubelu, WHO's Assistant Director General for Family and Community Health."





    Quoting anime.princess:

    None of those outlets are reliable sources.  Just pick a basic biology book that talks about viruses.  Don't try to feed me with your lack of knowledge.  



    Quoting tabi_cat1023:

    Not according to UNC CHapel Hill's recent studies

    http://www.naturalnews.com/036382_breast_milk_AIDS_HIV.html

    http://now.msn.com/breast-milk-has-superpowers-even-you-didnt-realize

    This is current research from reliable sources



    Quoting anime.princess:

    You're are sooooo wrong.  That virus passes through the milk; it is not destroyed.  



    Quoting tabi_cat1023:

    Actually its being shown that bfing with hiv can protect babies..that bm kills the virus so i dunno there








    Quoting anime.princess:

    That's good, as long as she's not HIV+ or has Hepatits. 













  • thickerthan
    August 31, 2012 at 12:12 PM
    Yeah and? It's exactly this type of post that causes the issues about breastfeeding. People start to talk about what one very popular person said just a few months into her pregnancy before she realized what a wonderful thing breastfeeding is. most countries have no issues with this and women breastfeed their babies freely without a single person saying one bad thing.
    I breastfed all four of mine. One being my sd, abandoned by the BM at 5 Weeks, who I've now legally adopted. I had problems and pain, infections twice early on. But you get the hang of it and it's the best thing you can do for your child.
    Also moms let's learn our rights as breastfeeding moms! It's federal law that no one can harass, ask or force out of public or federal place or cause discomfort to any breastfeeding mothers or children. This includes asking a mother to move to a nursing room, cover up with anything weather her breasts are showing or not. Breastfeeding is not ever public nudity even if your entire breast shows. Some of us know how our babies can pull our shirts up or down no matter how hard we try to stay covered. SO WHEN SOMEONE TRY'S TO TELL YOU YOUR WRONG. TELL THEM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SAYS BREAST IS THE BEST!
  • thickerthan
    August 31, 2012 at 12:34 PM
    Quoting chelseamcnorman:

    Hopefully she'll keep it up. If she can get past the first couple months, then the pain she was dreading should be over. 


    I never experienced pain other than getting a clogged duct once with my first child.
    Though with my other 3 once my milk was fully in I had bad pain each time my milk let down. So with some moms it really all depends on her. I kept up with feeding them. I sibling fed my 2nd & and then my 4th DD. The only difference between the 1st and others being I stayed home with my first and worked with all the others. I hope she does keep it up. No one knows her medical history for sure except her Dr. and her. So it's best for her child that she breastfeeds.
  • tabi_cat1023
    August 31, 2012 at 3:57 PM
    It drastically reduces and comes close to eliminating the risks. It does not make it risk free, but wth is risk free? Moms need all the info out there to make educated choices for their child. For most moms it would be formula risks which are much higher imho over the small risk of hiv passing. Keep in mind baby already had the risk during pregnancy


    Quoting anime.princess:

    Wow, you sure want to find a way to prove that you're right even when you aren't.  You should say that taking antiretroviral medications REDUCES the chance, but it will not eliminate it.  Why is that hard to understand it?


    Quoting MaryJarrett:

    What if those 95% are the ones who suffers necrotising enterocolitis, asthma attack, SIDs, childhood leukemia, chronic ear infections, eczema, upper respiratory infections, diabetes, etc from being *unnecessarily* formula fed?

    Why consider not breastfeeding a safe method? It is not risk free to skip out on mother's own milk. It is worth it to weigh the risks (5%) vs the benefit (95%).



    Now I realize you aren't jumping straight to formula, as the child could get donor milk. That would be *great*, but the advantages of getting mothers own milk should never be discredited, especially when it is the best practice advice from the largest medical organization. The WHO lists the hierarchy of infant feed as (1) mother's milk from mother's breast (2) mother's milk in any way (3) human milk any way (4 and lastly) formula.

    But look at how hard it is to get human milk. Use and popularity of donor milk has gone up dramatically lately, but it's still not enough as of yet.




    Quoting anime.princess:

    What about that less than 5%? It can still pass. 



    Quoting MaryJarrett:

    *Below* 5%. :) Let's read all of it.  

    You are saying it *will* still pass. That IS false. It has a 95% chance of NOT passing. I said that in my post (which is probably where you are getting it from since you seem not so keen on checking).

    That is your opinion that it isn't worth it.

    Based on all the potential risks of formula usage, it would be my opinion (which is supported by the World Health Organization as linked below) to breastfeed. I tend to stick with the pros on this stuff. Best practice advice based in facts and studies, not on myths and old ill conceived theories. There are a lot of myths in the realm of pathology, especially the pathology of something misunderstood as HIV/AIDs. A lot of people believe that HIV and AIDs are the same thing, but you can have HIV for years without having AIDs. AIDs is only when your CD4 drops below 200. We're here to spread the most recent developments in the breastfeeding world. What you are saying is outdated and untrue. Good luck to you! :)  

    Quoting anime.princess:

    It is not 100% safe anyways; 95% safe, perhaps but not worth the risk.  It will still pass, regardless of the medication taken.   Looks like that part of the article YOU didn't read it.



    Quoting MaryJarrett:

    Did you read it? They are being treated with antiretroviral medications. These medications are also past through the breastmilk, which combines with breastmilk's natural ability to fight diseases. The recommendation before this was for mothers with HIV/AIDs to breastfeed exclusively for 6 months, then once solids were introduced to switch to formula. That goes along the same basis that breastmilk does help STOP the virus. Those studies showed that as long as the baby was only recieving mothers milk the baby was protected. This recent study has shown that even once solids are introduced the baby is still protected.
    Not treated mothers transfer rates to children are between 15-45%. Treated mothers transfer rates are below 5%. It is fairly safe to breast feed with HIV/AIDs.
    Not only that but scientists are researching ways to heat treat human milk so that it will be free of diseases, including HIV/AIDs. This is still new and in testing stages. I pray that it works. Yes, it will kill some of the goodness of the human milk BUT it would be just the same as scorching milk with excess lipase to prevent breakdown during storage. Still better nutritionally that formula, so to say.   

    Also, you mention Hepatitis, there are multiple strains for Hep. Here is what WHO has to say on Hep B. 

    :
    "Risk of transmission by breastfeeding 



    Breastfeeding has been suggested as an additional mechanism by which infants may acquire 



    HBV infection, because small amounts of Hepatitis B surface antigen (HBsAg) have been 



    detected in some samples of breastmilk. However, there is no evidence that breastfeeding 



    increases the risk of mother to child transmission. A follow up study of 147 infants born to 



    mothers known to be carriers of HBV in Taiwan (4) found similar rates of HBV infection in 92 



    children who were breastfed compared to 55 who were bottle fed. A study in Britain, involving 



    126 subjects, also showed no additional risk for breastfed versus non breastfed infants of carrier 



    mothers (5). This study included the measurement of HBeAg status of the mothers, but found no 



    association between maternal e-antigen status and transmission rates. These findings suggest 



    strongly that any risk of transmission associated with breastmilk is negligible compared to the 



    high risk of exposure to maternal blood and body fluids at birth. Experts on hepatitis, however, 



    do have concerns that breast pathology such as cracked or bleeding nipples or lesions with serous 



    exudates could expose the infant to infectious doses of HBV. " 



     

    Quoting anime.princess:

    The virus can be passed throught the milk.  I don't know how the fuck they came up with those studies.  



    Quoting MaryJarrett:

    So the World Health Organization recommending that even mother's with HIV/AIDs breastfeed is what?





    http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2009/world_aids_20091130/en/index.html








    "In 2006, WHO recommended that ARVs be provided to HIV-positive pregnant women in the third trimester (beginning at 28 weeks) to prevent mother-to-child transmission of HIV. At the time, there was insufficient evidence on the protective effect of ARVs during breastfeeding. Since then, several clinical trials have shown the efficacy of ARVs in preventing transmission to the infant while breastfeeding. The 2009 recommendations promote the use of ARVs earlier in pregnancy, starting at 14 weeks and continuing through the end of the breastfeeding period.





    WHO now recommends that breastfeeding continue until the infant is 12 months of age, provided the HIV-positive mother or baby is taking ARVs during that period. This will reduce the risk of HIV transmission and improve the infant's chance of survival.





    "In the new recommendations, we are sending a clear message that breastfeeding is a good option for every baby, even those with HIV-positive mothers, when they have access to ARVs," said Daisy Mafubelu, WHO's Assistant Director General for Family and Community Health."








    Quoting anime.princess:

    None of those outlets are reliable sources.  Just pick a basic biology book that talks about viruses.  Don't try to feed me with your lack of knowledge.  




    Quoting tabi_cat1023:

    Not according to UNC CHapel Hill's recent studies

    http://www.naturalnews.com/036382_breast_milk_AIDS_HIV.html

    http://now.msn.com/breast-milk-has-superpowers-even-you-didnt-realize

    This is current research from reliable sources




    Quoting anime.princess:

    You're are sooooo wrong.  That virus passes through the milk; it is not destroyed.  




    Quoting tabi_cat1023:

    Actually its being shown that bfing with hiv can protect babies..that bm kills the virus so i dunno there











    Quoting anime.princess:

    That's good, as long as she's not HIV+ or has Hepatits. 















  • chelseamcnorman
    August 31, 2012 at 7:40 PM

    Hot compresses, massage, and lactation herbs helped me with clogged ducts. 

    Quoting thickerthan:

    Quoting chelseamcnorman:

    Hopefully she'll keep it up. If she can get past the first couple months, then the pain she was dreading should be over. 


    I never experienced pain other than getting a clogged duct once with my first child.
    Though with my other 3 once my milk was fully in I had bad pain each time my milk let down. So with some moms it really all depends on her. I kept up with feeding them. I sibling fed my 2nd & and then my 4th DD. The only difference between the 1st and others being I stayed home with my first and worked with all the others. I hope she does keep it up. No one knows her medical history for sure except her Dr. and her. So it's best for her child that she breastfeeds.


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