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  • romalove
    November 16, 2012 at 5:12 PM

     

    Quoting Farmlady09:

    Going to church is far from the only way that Christians practice their religion. Whether you don't know that, don't understand that, or don't care is immaterial. Christians are effectively being bullied and/or harrassed at this point into silence and hiding.

    Yes, I said bullying. If a group of kids constantly makes fun of another child and causes them emotional pain, it is called bullying.

    If a group of adults do this to another adult, it is called harrassment.

    Unless you're a hypocrite, if you consider a Christian student telling a gay student they believe it is wrong, or they will go to hell  or to go back in their closet ~ than it's JUST as wrong for any Atheist to tell a Christian they have an invisible friend or they need to keep it in their home/church.

    Either both situations are wrong, or both are ok. Personally I think both are wrong. It's obvious that there are quite a few people who make do with situational ethics.


     

    Quoting LucyMom08:

    When have Christians been stopped from going to church?

    Quoting SallyMJ:

    This stuff is both funny and absurd. Many Americans seem to forget that the First Amendment freedom of religion consists of two parts:

    1) Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,

    2) Or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

    The last 10-20 years, liberals seem to forget about the "free exercise" portion of religious freedom.

     

     Nonsense.

    You can practice your religion as long as you aren't infringing on someone else.  If your religion requires you to infringe on someone else's rights, we have a problem.

    Telling someone that they think their God is imaginary is not the same thing as telling a gay person they are going to hell or go back in the closet.

    I'm an atheist and I'm told I'm going to hell all the time, lol, or how wrong I am, or how sorry I will be when I meet God after I die.  Not believing or believing is a choice, and if someone wants to challenge my choice, we can discuss it.

    Being gay isn't a choice.  It would be like attacking a person for their skin color.

    ETA:  Christians are about three fourths of all the people in the country.  It is hilarious to say they are being bullied into silence and hiding.  LOLOL

  • Farmlady09
    November 16, 2012 at 5:34 PM


    Quoting romalove:

     

    Quoting Farmlady09:

    Going to church is far from the only way that Christians practice their religion. Whether you don't know that, don't understand that, or don't care is immaterial. Christians are effectively being bullied and/or harrassed at this point into silence and hiding.

    Yes, I said bullying. If a group of kids constantly makes fun of another child and causes them emotional pain, it is called bullying.

    If a group of adults do this to another adult, it is called harrassment.

    Unless you're a hypocrite, if you consider a Christian student telling a gay student they believe it is wrong, or they will go to hell  or to go back in their closet ~ than it's JUST as wrong for any Atheist to tell a Christian they have an invisible friend or they need to keep it in their home/church.

    Either both situations are wrong, or both are ok. Personally I think both are wrong. It's obvious that there are quite a few people who make do with situational ethics.


     

    Quoting LucyMom08:

    When have Christians been stopped from going to church?

    Quoting SallyMJ:

    This stuff is both funny and absurd. Many Americans seem to forget that the First Amendment freedom of religion consists of two parts:

    1) Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,

    2) Or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

    The last 10-20 years, liberals seem to forget about the "free exercise" portion of religious freedom.

     

     Nonsense.

    You can practice your religion as long as you aren't infringing on someone else.  If your religion requires you to infringe on someone else's rights, we have a problem.

    Telling someone that they think their God is imaginary is not the same thing as telling a gay person they are going to hell or go back in the closet.

    I'm an atheist and I'm told I'm going to hell all the time, lol, or how wrong I am, or how sorry I will be when I meet God after I die.  Not believing or believing is a choice, and if someone wants to challenge my choice, we can discuss it.

    Being gay isn't a choice.  It would be like attacking a person for their skin color.

    ETA:  Christians are about three fourths of all the people in the country.  It is hilarious to say they are being bullied into silence and hiding.  LOLOL

    You're just one more prime example ~ and even my gay son can't honestly determine 'why' or 'how' he is gay. He would also tell you that if you are being deliberately hurtful the problem is yours ~ and you should keep it to yourself rather than tell a religious person to keep it to themselves.

    Whether you are right or wrong, whether I (as a Christian) am right or wrong is a moot point. Arguing about it, or even debating it is pointless. Everyone WILL eventually find out (or fade into oblivion or join other spirits in the cosmos) and every one will have to live with their rightness or wrongness. I'm ok with that.

    I'm not saying that Christians are without blame ~ because NO Christian has a right to say "you're going to hell". Saying "the Bible says so" is acceptable only if it's part of a much greater message. Threatening someone or verbally beating someone is hardly a productive way to convey a message of love imo. People believe what they believe. I'll agree that giving people a chance to not believe on their own is ok, but not with bashing.

    That being said, bullying is still bullying. It doesn't matter if it's a choice or not ~ the right to choose a religion is still a right, and no one else should have any right to make fun of them for it, or destroy symbols of it just because they made a different choice.

    If it was wrong to burn a Quran because it upsets Muslims, than leave Christian things alone. I don't walk around looking for ways to bash anyone who believes something different, or wears different clothing, or chooses to drive a 'smart car' (even though I think they are ridiculous and basically unsafe).

    I don't even mind if a person chooses to be deliberately hurtful, unless they make excuses or divert the blame for their choices.

    Btw, I couldn't get any of the videos to actually play ~ so what I've posted is just my opinion on the overall subject and going from the titles in the links. Imo, trying to tear down a religious statue or a manger is way over the top. At that point both cheeks have been slapped, and people should expect Christians to be angry (especially those who have no problem with Muslim riots in other countries because someone burned a book here).

  • romalove
    November 16, 2012 at 5:41 PM

     

    Quoting Farmlady09:

     

    Quoting romalove:

     

    Quoting Farmlady09:

    Going to church is far from the only way that Christians practice their religion. Whether you don't know that, don't understand that, or don't care is immaterial. Christians are effectively being bullied and/or harrassed at this point into silence and hiding.

    Yes, I said bullying. If a group of kids constantly makes fun of another child and causes them emotional pain, it is called bullying.

    If a group of adults do this to another adult, it is called harrassment.

    Unless you're a hypocrite, if you consider a Christian student telling a gay student they believe it is wrong, or they will go to hell  or to go back in their closet ~ than it's JUST as wrong for any Atheist to tell a Christian they have an invisible friend or they need to keep it in their home/church.

    Either both situations are wrong, or both are ok. Personally I think both are wrong. It's obvious that there are quite a few people who make do with situational ethics.


     

    Quoting LucyMom08:

    When have Christians been stopped from going to church?

    Quoting SallyMJ:

    This stuff is both funny and absurd. Many Americans seem to forget that the First Amendment freedom of religion consists of two parts:

    1) Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,

    2) Or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

    The last 10-20 years, liberals seem to forget about the "free exercise" portion of religious freedom.

     

     Nonsense.

    You can practice your religion as long as you aren't infringing on someone else.  If your religion requires you to infringe on someone else's rights, we have a problem.

    Telling someone that they think their God is imaginary is not the same thing as telling a gay person they are going to hell or go back in the closet.

    I'm an atheist and I'm told I'm going to hell all the time, lol, or how wrong I am, or how sorry I will be when I meet God after I die.  Not believing or believing is a choice, and if someone wants to challenge my choice, we can discuss it.

    Being gay isn't a choice.  It would be like attacking a person for their skin color.

    ETA:  Christians are about three fourths of all the people in the country.  It is hilarious to say they are being bullied into silence and hiding.  LOLOL

    You're just one more prime example ~ and even my gay son can't honestly determine 'why' or 'how' he is gay. He would also tell you that if you are being deliberately hurtful the problem is yours ~ and you should keep it to yourself rather than tell a religious person to keep it to themselves.

    Whether you are right or wrong, whether I (as a Christian) am right or wrong is a moot point. Arguing about it, or even debating it is pointless. Everyone WILL eventually find out (or fade into oblivion or join other spirits in the cosmos) and every one will have to live with their rightness or wrongness. I'm ok with that.

    I'm not saying that Christians are without blame ~ because NO Christian has a right to say "you're going to hell". Saying "the Bible says so" is acceptable only if it's part of a much greater message. Threatening someone or verbally beating someone is hardly a productive way to convey a message of love imo. People believe what they believe. I'll agree that giving people a chance to not believe on their own is ok, but not with bashing.

    That being said, bullying is still bullying. It doesn't matter if it's a choice or not ~ the right to choose a religion is still a right, and no one else should have any right to make fun of them for it, or destroy symbols of it just because they made a different choice.

    If it was wrong to burn a Quran because it upsets Muslims, than leave Christian things alone. I don't walk around looking for ways to bash anyone who believes something different, or wears different clothing, or chooses to drive a 'smart car' (even though I think they are ridiculous and basically unsafe).

    I don't even mind if a person chooses to be deliberately hurtful, unless they make excuses or divert the blame for their choices.

    Btw, I couldn't get any of the videos to actually play ~ so what I've posted is just my opinion on the overall subject and going from the titles in the links. Imo, trying to tear down a religious statue or a manger is way over the top. At that point both cheeks have been slapped, and people should expect Christians to be angry (especially those who have no problem with Muslim riots in other countries because someone burned a book here).

     I don't watch videos that are posted or click on links, so I didn't listen either.

    I don't know what you mean by I'm a prime example.  Of what? 

    Where was I deliberately hurtful?  Because I think it's funny you speak of Christians hiding and silent when they are everywhere, omnipresent, and very very vocal?  They are on television stations and shows and radio shows and I live in a town of less than 50,000 people and we have about 20 churches within the township and we are not unusual.  If you mean Christians are hesitant to tell people what they really think, I'm not seeing it.  I do see that when they say it, there are people who disagree.

    It's everyone's right to disagree.

  • autodidact
    November 16, 2012 at 5:42 PM

    Quoting buttersworth:

    \
    He isn't trying to frighten atheists. He's trying to appeal to religious people. He's trying to look like he shares the opinions of Christians that make up a lot of republicans, which are predominantly his audience. He is not sincere, in my opinion.

    A separation of church and state doesn't mean you can't acknowledge God in a public place. A separation was put in place by the founders so that someone like the Catholic pope did not have persuasion on affairs of the country. If the pope did, that would be unfair because not everyone is Catholic. But most people living in our country in those days were Christian (and actually not Catholic). Religious tolerance was called for when Congrationalists lived amongst Calvinists or Quakers, for example. The basis for our Constitution comes from Christian principles of individual sovereignty. We might not be exclusively Christian anymore, but the whole framework of our country comes from it, and Judeo-Christian laws.

    A separation of church and state makes it so we don't decide legislation based solely on church canon. Like with the abortion debate, or contraception. - we don't follow any church's doctrine. But individuals can make their personal decisions based upon their religious beliefs, and they do, and they get representation, being Americans.

    Christian iconography in public spaces is a freedom of expression, and also, part of our tradition and history.

    Communists are the ones who forbid religious iconography from their public landscape. Theyhave no tolerance for any religion, probably because they see it as a threat to their power. Without religion in their way, they become the moral authority and can compel their people to do whatever they want for the good of their agenda.

    There is no basis for any other religious iconography to be in places such as courthouses, libraries and congressional buildings, etc. Again, that is because our laws are based upon Christian principle. However, there are plenty of other religious iconographies in public places just not necessarilly historic places or those shared by communities, like a courthouse or banks.

    same question for both highlighted quotes: how do you figure that? 

  • caito
    by caito
    November 16, 2012 at 5:49 PM

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.


  • autodidact
    November 16, 2012 at 5:50 PM

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24599768/ns/business-autos/t/smart-car-gets-highest-score-crash-tests/

  • autodidact
    November 16, 2012 at 5:57 PM

    so then it's bullying when christians on here tell me I'm not a good citizen, or a good parent, or decent human being, or that I misscarried, because I'm an atheist, right? 

    freedom of speech includes the right to be an asshole, like it or not. 

    Quoting Farmlady09:


    Quoting romalove:

     

    Quoting Farmlady09:

    Going to church is far from the only way that Christians practice their religion. Whether you don't know that, don't understand that, or don't care is immaterial. Christians are effectively being bullied and/or harrassed at this point into silence and hiding.

    Yes, I said bullying. If a group of kids constantly makes fun of another child and causes them emotional pain, it is called bullying.

    If a group of adults do this to another adult, it is called harrassment.

    Unless you're a hypocrite, if you consider a Christian student telling a gay student they believe it is wrong, or they will go to hell  or to go back in their closet ~ than it's JUST as wrong for any Atheist to tell a Christian they have an invisible friend or they need to keep it in their home/church.

    Either both situations are wrong, or both are ok. Personally I think both are wrong. It's obvious that there are quite a few people who make do with situational ethics.


     

    Quoting LucyMom08:

    When have Christians been stopped from going to church?

    Quoting SallyMJ:

    This stuff is both funny and absurd. Many Americans seem to forget that the First Amendment freedom of religion consists of two parts:

    1) Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,

    2) Or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

    The last 10-20 years, liberals seem to forget about the "free exercise" portion of religious freedom.


     Nonsense.

    You can practice your religion as long as you aren't infringing on someone else.  If your religion requires you to infringe on someone else's rights, we have a problem.

    Telling someone that they think their God is imaginary is not the same thing as telling a gay person they are going to hell or go back in the closet.

    I'm an atheist and I'm told I'm going to hell all the time, lol, or how wrong I am, or how sorry I will be when I meet God after I die.  Not believing or believing is a choice, and if someone wants to challenge my choice, we can discuss it.

    Being gay isn't a choice.  It would be like attacking a person for their skin color.

    ETA:  Christians are about three fourths of all the people in the country.  It is hilarious to say they are being bullied into silence and hiding.  LOLOL

    You're just one more prime example ~ and even my gay son can't honestly determine 'why' or 'how' he is gay. He would also tell you that if you are being deliberately hurtful the problem is yours ~ and you should keep it to yourself rather than tell a religious person to keep it to themselves.

    Whether you are right or wrong, whether I (as a Christian) am right or wrong is a moot point. Arguing about it, or even debating it is pointless. Everyone WILL eventually find out (or fade into oblivion or join other spirits in the cosmos) and every one will have to live with their rightness or wrongness. I'm ok with that.

    I'm not saying that Christians are without blame ~ because NO Christian has a right to say "you're going to hell". Saying "the Bible says so" is acceptable only if it's part of a much greater message. Threatening someone or verbally beating someone is hardly a productive way to convey a message of love imo. People believe what they believe. I'll agree that giving people a chance to not believe on their own is ok, but not with bashing.

    That being said, bullying is still bullying. It doesn't matter if it's a choice or not ~ the right to choose a religion is still a right, and no one else should have any right to make fun of them for it, or destroy symbols of it just because they made a different choice.

    If it was wrong to burn a Quran because it upsets Muslims, than leave Christian things alone. I don't walk around looking for ways to bash anyone who believes something different, or wears different clothing, or chooses to drive a 'smart car' (even though I think they are ridiculous and basically unsafe).

    I don't even mind if a person chooses to be deliberately hurtful, unless they make excuses or divert the blame for their choices.

    Btw, I couldn't get any of the videos to actually play ~ so what I've posted is just my opinion on the overall subject and going from the titles in the links. Imo, trying to tear down a religious statue or a manger is way over the top. At that point both cheeks have been slapped, and people should expect Christians to be angry (especially those who have no problem with Muslim riots in other countries because someone burned a book here).


  • Farmlady09
    November 16, 2012 at 7:56 PM


    Quoting romalove:

     

    Quoting Farmlady09:

     

    Quoting romalove:

     

    Quoting Farmlady09:

    Going to church is far from the only way that Christians practice their religion. Whether you don't know that, don't understand that, or don't care is immaterial. Christians are effectively being bullied and/or harrassed at this point into silence and hiding.

    Yes, I said bullying. If a group of kids constantly makes fun of another child and causes them emotional pain, it is called bullying.

    If a group of adults do this to another adult, it is called harrassment.

    Unless you're a hypocrite, if you consider a Christian student telling a gay student they believe it is wrong, or they will go to hell  or to go back in their closet ~ than it's JUST as wrong for any Atheist to tell a Christian they have an invisible friend or they need to keep it in their home/church.

    Either both situations are wrong, or both are ok. Personally I think both are wrong. It's obvious that there are quite a few people who make do with situational ethics.


     

    Quoting LucyMom08:

    When have Christians been stopped from going to church?

    Quoting SallyMJ:

    This stuff is both funny and absurd. Many Americans seem to forget that the First Amendment freedom of religion consists of two parts:

    1) Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,

    2) Or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

    The last 10-20 years, liberals seem to forget about the "free exercise" portion of religious freedom.

     

     Nonsense.

    You can practice your religion as long as you aren't infringing on someone else.  If your religion requires you to infringe on someone else's rights, we have a problem.

    Telling someone that they think their God is imaginary is not the same thing as telling a gay person they are going to hell or go back in the closet.

    I'm an atheist and I'm told I'm going to hell all the time, lol, or how wrong I am, or how sorry I will be when I meet God after I die.  Not believing or believing is a choice, and if someone wants to challenge my choice, we can discuss it.

    Being gay isn't a choice.  It would be like attacking a person for their skin color.

    ETA:  Christians are about three fourths of all the people in the country.  It is hilarious to say they are being bullied into silence and hiding.  LOLOL

    You're just one more prime example ~ and even my gay son can't honestly determine 'why' or 'how' he is gay. He would also tell you that if you are being deliberately hurtful the problem is yours ~ and you should keep it to yourself rather than tell a religious person to keep it to themselves.

    Whether you are right or wrong, whether I (as a Christian) am right or wrong is a moot point. Arguing about it, or even debating it is pointless. Everyone WILL eventually find out (or fade into oblivion or join other spirits in the cosmos) and every one will have to live with their rightness or wrongness. I'm ok with that.

    I'm not saying that Christians are without blame ~ because NO Christian has a right to say "you're going to hell". Saying "the Bible says so" is acceptable only if it's part of a much greater message. Threatening someone or verbally beating someone is hardly a productive way to convey a message of love imo. People believe what they believe. I'll agree that giving people a chance to not believe on their own is ok, but not with bashing.

    That being said, bullying is still bullying. It doesn't matter if it's a choice or not ~ the right to choose a religion is still a right, and no one else should have any right to make fun of them for it, or destroy symbols of it just because they made a different choice.

    If it was wrong to burn a Quran because it upsets Muslims, than leave Christian things alone. I don't walk around looking for ways to bash anyone who believes something different, or wears different clothing, or chooses to drive a 'smart car' (even though I think they are ridiculous and basically unsafe).

    I don't even mind if a person chooses to be deliberately hurtful, unless they make excuses or divert the blame for their choices.

    Btw, I couldn't get any of the videos to actually play ~ so what I've posted is just my opinion on the overall subject and going from the titles in the links. Imo, trying to tear down a religious statue or a manger is way over the top. At that point both cheeks have been slapped, and people should expect Christians to be angry (especially those who have no problem with Muslim riots in other countries because someone burned a book here).

     I don't watch videos that are posted or click on links, so I didn't listen either.

    I don't know what you mean by I'm a prime example.  Of what? 

    Where was I deliberately hurtful?  Because I think it's funny you speak of Christians hiding and silent when they are everywhere, omnipresent, and very very vocal?  They are on television stations and shows and radio shows and I live in a town of less than 50,000 people and we have about 20 churches within the township and we are not unusual.  If you mean Christians are hesitant to tell people what they really think, I'm not seeing it.  I do see that when they say it, there are people who disagree.

    It's everyone's right to disagree.


    I usually watch them ~ just pay attention to my security warnings, but these wouldn't play at all.

    I meant you're a prime example of people who don't seem to understand/care why Christians get upset at things like a statue being removed or demands to remove a manger scene. As far as I can tell from what you typed, you don't. That isn't a good or bad reflection ~ just saying that if you think differently I can't really tell.

    Nothing you said was hurtful, although labeling someone else's feelings as hilarious is cutting it close. I don't mind disagreement, but deliberately mocking others doesn't mean anyone wins ~ it just means there is no more conversation (or debate if that was the original intent). Sorry if you thought I meant you specifically ... I didn't.

    I don't have any problem with outright disagreement btw. We all are what we are ... what I do have a problem with are those who will only say it's ok to mock one religion, slam one religion, etc. In particular, those who state that they have had a personal experience and seem determined to take it out on every member of that religion (and/or defend other religions at the same time). I do have a problem with those who say 'keep it at home or in church' ~ that is just so far removed from what the constitution says, and when it comes from someone who wants respect for their own choice of no religion, it's just an insult.

    Wish I could find another link to the video though ... does anyone have one?

  • Farmlady09
    November 16, 2012 at 7:57 PM

    Yes ~ that is exactly what it is.

    Quoting autodidact:

    so then it's bullying when christians on here tell me I'm not a good citizen, or a good parent, or decent human being, or that I misscarried, because I'm an atheist, right? 

    freedom of speech includes the right to be an asshole, like it or not. 

    Quoting Farmlady09:

     

    Quoting romalove:

     

    Quoting Farmlady09:

    Going to church is far from the only way that Christians practice their religion. Whether you don't know that, don't understand that, or don't care is immaterial. Christians are effectively being bullied and/or harrassed at this point into silence and hiding.

    Yes, I said bullying. If a group of kids constantly makes fun of another child and causes them emotional pain, it is called bullying.

    If a group of adults do this to another adult, it is called harrassment.

    Unless you're a hypocrite, if you consider a Christian student telling a gay student they believe it is wrong, or they will go to hell  or to go back in their closet ~ than it's JUST as wrong for any Atheist to tell a Christian they have an invisible friend or they need to keep it in their home/church.

    Either both situations are wrong, or both are ok. Personally I think both are wrong. It's obvious that there are quite a few people who make do with situational ethics.


     

    Quoting LucyMom08:

    When have Christians been stopped from going to church?

    Quoting SallyMJ:

    This stuff is both funny and absurd. Many Americans seem to forget that the First Amendment freedom of religion consists of two parts:

    1) Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,

    2) Or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

    The last 10-20 years, liberals seem to forget about the "free exercise" portion of religious freedom.

     

     Nonsense.

    You can practice your religion as long as you aren't infringing on someone else.  If your religion requires you to infringe on someone else's rights, we have a problem.

    Telling someone that they think their God is imaginary is not the same thing as telling a gay person they are going to hell or go back in the closet.

    I'm an atheist and I'm told I'm going to hell all the time, lol, or how wrong I am, or how sorry I will be when I meet God after I die.  Not believing or believing is a choice, and if someone wants to challenge my choice, we can discuss it.

    Being gay isn't a choice.  It would be like attacking a person for their skin color.

    ETA:  Christians are about three fourths of all the people in the country.  It is hilarious to say they are being bullied into silence and hiding.  LOLOL

    You're just one more prime example ~ and even my gay son can't honestly determine 'why' or 'how' he is gay. He would also tell you that if you are being deliberately hurtful the problem is yours ~ and you should keep it to yourself rather than tell a religious person to keep it to themselves.

    Whether you are right or wrong, whether I (as a Christian) am right or wrong is a moot point. Arguing about it, or even debating it is pointless. Everyone WILL eventually find out (or fade into oblivion or join other spirits in the cosmos) and every one will have to live with their rightness or wrongness. I'm ok with that.

    I'm not saying that Christians are without blame ~ because NO Christian has a right to say "you're going to hell". Saying "the Bible says so" is acceptable only if it's part of a much greater message. Threatening someone or verbally beating someone is hardly a productive way to convey a message of love imo. People believe what they believe. I'll agree that giving people a chance to not believe on their own is ok, but not with bashing.

    That being said, bullying is still bullying. It doesn't matter if it's a choice or not ~ the right to choose a religion is still a right, and no one else should have any right to make fun of them for it, or destroy symbols of it just because they made a different choice.

    If it was wrong to burn a Quran because it upsets Muslims, than leave Christian things alone. I don't walk around looking for ways to bash anyone who believes something different, or wears different clothing, or chooses to drive a 'smart car' (even though I think they are ridiculous and basically unsafe).

    I don't even mind if a person chooses to be deliberately hurtful, unless they make excuses or divert the blame for their choices.

    Btw, I couldn't get any of the videos to actually play ~ so what I've posted is just my opinion on the overall subject and going from the titles in the links. Imo, trying to tear down a religious statue or a manger is way over the top. At that point both cheeks have been slapped, and people should expect Christians to be angry (especially those who have no problem with Muslim riots in other countries because someone burned a book here).

     


  • romalove
    November 16, 2012 at 11:17 PM
    I understand why Christians get upset over removal of iconography from places that have previously allowed such things. That doesn't mean they are right to want to keep religious representations on public governmental lands.



    Quoting Farmlady09:



    Quoting romalove:


     


    Quoting Farmlady09:


     


    Quoting romalove:


     


    Quoting Farmlady09:


    Going to church is far from the only way that Christians practice their religion. Whether you don't know that, don't understand that, or don't care is immaterial. Christians are effectively being bullied and/or harrassed at this point into silence and hiding.


    Yes, I said bullying. If a group of kids constantly makes fun of another child and causes them emotional pain, it is called bullying.


    If a group of adults do this to another adult, it is called harrassment.


    Unless you're a hypocrite, if you consider a Christian student telling a gay student they believe it is wrong, or they will go to hell  or to go back in their closet ~ than it's JUST as wrong for any Atheist to tell a Christian they have an invisible friend or they need to keep it in their home/church.


    Either both situations are wrong, or both are ok. Personally I think both are wrong. It's obvious that there are quite a few people who make do with situational ethics.



     


    Quoting LucyMom08:

    When have Christians been stopped from going to church?


    Quoting SallyMJ:


    This stuff is both funny and absurd. Many Americans seem to forget that the First Amendment freedom of religion consists of two parts:


    1) Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,


    2) Or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.


    The last 10-20 years, liberals seem to forget about the "free exercise" portion of religious freedom.


     


     Nonsense.


    You can practice your religion as long as you aren't infringing on someone else.  If your religion requires you to infringe on someone else's rights, we have a problem.


    Telling someone that they think their God is imaginary is not the same thing as telling a gay person they are going to hell or go back in the closet.


    I'm an atheist and I'm told I'm going to hell all the time, lol, or how wrong I am, or how sorry I will be when I meet God after I die.  Not believing or believing is a choice, and if someone wants to challenge my choice, we can discuss it.


    Being gay isn't a choice.  It would be like attacking a person for their skin color.


    ETA:  Christians are about three fourths of all the people in the country.  It is hilarious to say they are being bullied into silence and hiding.  LOLOL


    You're just one more prime example ~ and even my gay son can't honestly determine 'why' or 'how' he is gay. He would also tell you that if you are being deliberately hurtful the problem is yours ~ and you should keep it to yourself rather than tell a religious person to keep it to themselves.


    Whether you are right or wrong, whether I (as a Christian) am right or wrong is a moot point. Arguing about it, or even debating it is pointless. Everyone WILL eventually find out (or fade into oblivion or join other spirits in the cosmos) and every one will have to live with their rightness or wrongness. I'm ok with that.


    I'm not saying that Christians are without blame ~ because NO Christian has a right to say "you're going to hell". Saying "the Bible says so" is acceptable only if it's part of a much greater message. Threatening someone or verbally beating someone is hardly a productive way to convey a message of love imo. People believe what they believe. I'll agree that giving people a chance to not believe on their own is ok, but not with bashing.


    That being said, bullying is still bullying. It doesn't matter if it's a choice or not ~ the right to choose a religion is still a right, and no one else should have any right to make fun of them for it, or destroy symbols of it just because they made a different choice.


    If it was wrong to burn a Quran because it upsets Muslims, than leave Christian things alone. I don't walk around looking for ways to bash anyone who believes something different, or wears different clothing, or chooses to drive a 'smart car' (even though I think they are ridiculous and basically unsafe).


    I don't even mind if a person chooses to be deliberately hurtful, unless they make excuses or divert the blame for their choices.


    Btw, I couldn't get any of the videos to actually play ~ so what I've posted is just my opinion on the overall subject and going from the titles in the links. Imo, trying to tear down a religious statue or a manger is way over the top. At that point both cheeks have been slapped, and people should expect Christians to be angry (especially those who have no problem with Muslim riots in other countries because someone burned a book here).


     I don't watch videos that are posted or click on links, so I didn't listen either.


    I don't know what you mean by I'm a prime example.  Of what? 


    Where was I deliberately hurtful?  Because I think it's funny you speak of Christians hiding and silent when they are everywhere, omnipresent, and very very vocal?  They are on television stations and shows and radio shows and I live in a town of less than 50,000 people and we have about 20 churches within the township and we are not unusual.  If you mean Christians are hesitant to tell people what they really think, I'm not seeing it.  I do see that when they say it, there are people who disagree.


    It's everyone's right to disagree.



    I usually watch them ~ just pay attention to my security warnings, but these wouldn't play at all.


    I meant you're a prime example of people who don't seem to understand/care why Christians get upset at things like a statue being removed or demands to remove a manger scene. As far as I can tell from what you typed, you don't. That isn't a good or bad reflection ~ just saying that if you think differently I can't really tell.


    Nothing you said was hurtful, although labeling someone else's feelings as hilarious is cutting it close. I don't mind disagreement, but deliberately mocking others doesn't mean anyone wins ~ it just means there is no more conversation (or debate if that was the original intent). Sorry if you thought I meant you specifically ... I didn't.


    I don't have any problem with outright disagreement btw. We all are what we are ... what I do have a problem with are those who will only say it's ok to mock one religion, slam one religion, etc. In particular, those who state that they have had a personal experience and seem determined to take it out on every member of that religion (and/or defend other religions at the same time). I do have a problem with those who say 'keep it at home or in church' ~ that is just so far removed from what the constitution says, and when it comes from someone who wants respect for their own choice of no religion, it's just an insult.


    Wish I could find another link to the video though ... does anyone have one?

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