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Anonymous
cheerleaders take stand on religion
by Anonymous
October 4, 2012 at 8:21 AM
Apparently they put things on their banners like if God is for us, who can break us..

The football team runs through it.

A orginzation called freedom from religion complained and the school superintendent made them stop.

The girls say its not school sponsored, cheerleaders create their own banners and they got the ideas from pinterest

Today it goes to the state supreme court.

The girls want to be able to continue to make whatever banner they want


Should they be able to? Or should the organization win and have the banners mentioning God continue to be banned?

Replies

  • sha_lyn68
    October 5, 2012 at 6:40 PM

    The banner wasn't just a one time thing, so there isn't "the game" for them to win, it has been most if not all their games this year. How in the hell would winning or losing prove their religion false or true? That type of ridiculous argument is what drove me away from Christanity to begin with.

    They are free to express themselves when they want and how they want any time other than when they are representing the school. I sear this is getting to be just like the peanutbutter ban arguments. Some parents say that penutbutter bans or restrictions in schools violate t their child's rights to sit and eat peanutbutter wherever they want to  when such actions could cause the death of a classmate. There is a time and a place for expressing ones freedom of religion and freedom of speech and there are times and places where that is not appropriate. IE one does not have the right to scream fire in a crowd just to see how people will react. 



    Quoting Anonymous:

    Are they also considered representatives of the school when they are attending classes during school hours?  Or just when they are on the football field?

    I'm not sure I would agree that students/sports members are "representatives of the school" that shouldn't be allowed to express what they want where they want.  But I guess if it's in the Constitution, then they are.  I wonder what the judge will decide.

    I still am curious, did they win the game?  If not, then I guess their banner will prove their religion false.  Would that make you happy?

    Quoting sha_lyn68:

    No, teeloffel isn't ignoring anything. It is you who are ignoring the fact that there is a difference between exercises one's right to freedom of speech and freedom of religion as a private citizen and as a representative of a government entity. Like it or not, the girls are representatives of the government school when they are in cheerleading uniforms and standing on the football field.

    Quoting Anonymous:

    I looked up the First Amendment link that you provided, and on that page it reads "Congress shall make now law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech . . . . . . ".  It seems that you choose to ignore the part in bold if it suits you.  Also, that same website also supported students' rights to religious expression (see dress code section under the "ABCs of Religion on Public Schools").  I don't see this being any different.  If anything, it seems petty to complain about that simple phrase on a banner. 

    To be completely honest though, I can see both sides to this.  How do we outlaw promoting any religions and respect the right to freedom of speech and religious expression at the same time?  It seems impossible!

    Quoting teeloffel:

    Umm, no. 

    Let me clarify this for you since your self-proclaimed "common sense" seems to only go so far.

    The only way what you're saying would work is if the cheerleaders were in a Private (religious) school. The reason Separation of Church and State applies in this case is because any public school is funded by the government (STATE), therefore it is unconstitutional for a member of a public school sports (or any other) team to include mentions of religion (GOD) during their game.   No one is forcing the cheerleaders to "hide" their religion.  People are simply trying to enforce a law that is already in effect, that was in fact, violated by the cheerleaders.

    Quoting Anonymous:

    Actually, doesn't the separation of church and state actually PROTECT the cheerleaders rights?  If the state outlaws them being able to use their banner because it mentions God, then that's not separating state from church.  The state should have NOTHING at all to do with it, for TRUE separation of church and state.  Which means, they should leave the cheerleaders alone.  If the cheerleaders are being forced to hide their religion in public places, then that is the government intruding on on their freedom.  That, to me, is violating separation of church and state.  Sorry, but your argument actually contradicts what you are trying to say!  And I'm not a Christian btw, just an agnostic with some common sense!

    Quoting teeloffel:

    Gee, wanna know why the separation of church and state is more important?  Because it's part of the CONSTITUTION! You know, the document you xtian windbags love to cite to back your ridiculous complaints.  However, this incident is NOT a violation of ANY of your "constitutional rights (aka - the First Amendment)" ... so stuff it already.  Go find something else to feign persecution over.

    Quoting Jamie1972:

    Schools would be better if religion,all religion not just christianity, was brought back. But that's my opinion. But religion set aside these girls freedom of speech is being trampled on. But since they happened to use their freedom of speech with a religious overtone it doesn't matter. Because apparently separation of church and state is more important. And really what is the big deal. Its a banner that players run thru and pp in a stadium happen to see for 60 seconds before its destroyed by a bunch of boys.


    Quoting Anonymous:

    School sponsored function is school property. And religion has no place in public school.



    Quoting Jamie1972:

    Yes I am. They maybe reps for the school and it maybe a school sponsored event but if its not on school property it shouldnt matter. The school,students, the town itself didn't care one iota about these banners. But some anti religious group got all offended about banners that had. God/or bible veses on them. These girls were not trying to convert or shove religon down ppls throat. Its a simple statement hiw if they have god in their side then the other team can't beat them. Its no different then coaches leading a team prayer fimor a good game or whatever in the lockerroom. Or is that just iffensive?






    Quoting Anonymous:

    Are you serious? It's a school sponsored function and the players are representatives of their schools.







    Quoting Jamie1972:

    If the football feild is not on school grounds then i dont see why they cant have whatever they want on their banners. They are not promoting or trying to convert anyone. Its a statement about the other team, how they cant them  imo















  • Anonymous
    by Anonymous
    October 5, 2012 at 6:54 PM

    Sorry, I was just being silly about winning/losing the game proving the religion. 

    However, I was wondering about whether they are "representing the school" when they are just attending classes on a regular school day.  If so, I'm pretty sure they are allowed to wear religious clothing, jewelry, etc. if they want to.  So why should a football game be any different? 

    The peanut butter ban isn't exactly an accurate analogy; bringing peanut butter to school could cause the death of a classmate, like you said.  A verse on a banner doesn't do anything like that. 

    Quoting sha_lyn68:

    The banner wasn't just a one time thing, so there isn't "the game" for them to win, it has been most if not all their games this year. How in the hell would winning or losing prove their religion false or true? That type of ridiculous argument is what drove me away from Christanity to begin with.

    They are free to express themselves when they want and how they want any time other than when they are representing the school. I sear this is getting to be just like the peanutbutter ban arguments. Some parents say that penutbutter bans or restrictions in schools violate t their child's rights to sit and eat peanutbutter wherever they want to  when such actions could cause the death of a classmate. There is a time and a place for expressing ones freedom of religion and freedom of speech and there are times and places where that is not appropriate. IE one does not have the right to scream fire in a crowd just to see how people will react. 

     

     

    Quoting Anonymous:

    Are they also considered representatives of the school when they are attending classes during school hours?  Or just when they are on the football field?

    I'm not sure I would agree that students/sports members are "representatives of the school" that shouldn't be allowed to express what they want where they want.  But I guess if it's in the Constitution, then they are.  I wonder what the judge will decide.

    I still am curious, did they win the game?  If not, then I guess their banner will prove their religion false.  Would that make you happy?

    Quoting sha_lyn68:

    No, teeloffel isn't ignoring anything. It is you who are ignoring the fact that there is a difference between exercises one's right to freedom of speech and freedom of religion as a private citizen and as a representative of a government entity. Like it or not, the girls are representatives of the government school when they are in cheerleading uniforms and standing on the football field.

    Quoting Anonymous:

    I looked up the First Amendment link that you provided, and on that page it reads "Congress shall make now law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech . . . . . . ".  It seems that you choose to ignore the part in bold if it suits you.  Also, that same website also supported students' rights to religious expression (see dress code section under the "ABCs of Religion on Public Schools").  I don't see this being any different.  If anything, it seems petty to complain about that simple phrase on a banner. 

    To be completely honest though, I can see both sides to this.  How do we outlaw promoting any religions and respect the right to freedom of speech and religious expression at the same time?  It seems impossible!

    Quoting teeloffel:

    Umm, no. 

    Let me clarify this for you since your self-proclaimed "common sense" seems to only go so far.

    The only way what you're saying would work is if the cheerleaders were in a Private (religious) school. The reason Separation of Church and State applies in this case is because any public school is funded by the government (STATE), therefore it is unconstitutional for a member of a public school sports (or any other) team to include mentions of religion (GOD) during their game.   No one is forcing the cheerleaders to "hide" their religion.  People are simply trying to enforce a law that is already in effect, that was in fact, violated by the cheerleaders.

    Quoting Anonymous:

    Actually, doesn't the separation of church and state actually PROTECT the cheerleaders rights?  If the state outlaws them being able to use their banner because it mentions God, then that's not separating state from church.  The state should have NOTHING at all to do with it, for TRUE separation of church and state.  Which means, they should leave the cheerleaders alone.  If the cheerleaders are being forced to hide their religion in public places, then that is the government intruding on on their freedom.  That, to me, is violating separation of church and state.  Sorry, but your argument actually contradicts what you are trying to say!  And I'm not a Christian btw, just an agnostic with some common sense!

    Quoting teeloffel:

    Gee, wanna know why the separation of church and state is more important?  Because it's part of the CONSTITUTION! You know, the document you xtian windbags love to cite to back your ridiculous complaints.  However, this incident is NOT a violation of ANY of your "constitutional rights (aka - the First Amendment)" ... so stuff it already.  Go find something else to feign persecution over.

    Quoting Jamie1972:

    Schools would be better if religion,all religion not just christianity, was brought back. But that's my opinion. But religion set aside these girls freedom of speech is being trampled on. But since they happened to use their freedom of speech with a religious overtone it doesn't matter. Because apparently separation of church and state is more important. And really what is the big deal. Its a banner that players run thru and pp in a stadium happen to see for 60 seconds before its destroyed by a bunch of boys.


    Quoting Anonymous:

    School sponsored function is school property. And religion has no place in public school.



    Quoting Jamie1972:

    Yes I am. They maybe reps for the school and it maybe a school sponsored event but if its not on school property it shouldnt matter. The school,students, the town itself didn't care one iota about these banners. But some anti religious group got all offended about banners that had. God/or bible veses on them. These girls were not trying to convert or shove religon down ppls throat. Its a simple statement hiw if they have god in their side then the other team can't beat them. Its no different then coaches leading a team prayer fimor a good game or whatever in the lockerroom. Or is that just iffensive?






    Quoting Anonymous:

    Are you serious? It's a school sponsored function and the players are representatives of their schools.







    Quoting Jamie1972:

    If the football feild is not on school grounds then i dont see why they cant have whatever they want on their banners. They are not promoting or trying to convert anyone. Its a statement about the other team, how they cant them  imo





     



     

     

     

     


     



  • arpazia
    by arpazia
    October 5, 2012 at 6:58 PM
    I'm afraid that banners got to go:)
  • teeloffel
    October 5, 2012 at 8:22 PM

    Thank you!

    Quoting sha_lyn68:

    No, teeloffel isn't ignoring anything. It is you who are ignoring the fact that there is a difference between exercises one's right to freedom of speech and freedom of religion as a private citizen and as a representative of a government entity. Like it or not, the girls are representatives of the government school when they are in cheerleading uniforms and standing on the football field.

    Quoting Anonymous:

    I looked up the First Amendment link that you provided, and on that page it reads "Congress shall make now law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech . . . . . . ".  It seems that you choose to ignore the part in bold if it suits you.  Also, that same website also supported students' rights to religious expression (see dress code section under the "ABCs of Religion on Public Schools").  I don't see this being any different.  If anything, it seems petty to complain about that simple phrase on a banner. 

    To be completely honest though, I can see both sides to this.  How do we outlaw promoting any religions and respect the right to freedom of speech and religious expression at the same time?  It seems impossible!

    Quoting teeloffel:

    Umm, no. 

    Let me clarify this for you since your self-proclaimed "common sense" seems to only go so far.

    The only way what you're saying would work is if the cheerleaders were in a Private (religious) school. The reason Separation of Church and State applies in this case is because any public school is funded by the government (STATE), therefore it is unconstitutional for a member of a public school sports (or any other) team to include mentions of religion (GOD) during their game.   No one is forcing the cheerleaders to "hide" their religion.  People are simply trying to enforce a law that is already in effect, that was in fact, violated by the cheerleaders.

    Quoting Anonymous:

    Actually, doesn't the separation of church and state actually PROTECT the cheerleaders rights?  If the state outlaws them being able to use their banner because it mentions God, then that's not separating state from church.  The state should have NOTHING at all to do with it, for TRUE separation of church and state.  Which means, they should leave the cheerleaders alone.  If the cheerleaders are being forced to hide their religion in public places, then that is the government intruding on on their freedom.  That, to me, is violating separation of church and state.  Sorry, but your argument actually contradicts what you are trying to say!  And I'm not a Christian btw, just an agnostic with some common sense.

  • sha_lyn68
    October 5, 2012 at 9:46 PM

    I wasn't making an analogy between banners and peanutbutter. I said this argument is reminding me about the arguments about peanutbutter bans.


    I've already explained to you the difference, I can't help it if you aren't getting it.

    Quoting Anonymous:

    Sorry, I was just being silly about winning/losing the game proving the religion. 

    However, I was wondering about whether they are "representing the school" when they are just attending classes on a regular school day.  If so, I'm pretty sure they are allowed to wear religious clothing, jewelry, etc. if they want to.  So why should a football game be any different? 

    The peanut butter ban isn't exactly an accurate analogy; bringing peanut butter to school could cause the death of a classmate, like you said.  A verse on a banner doesn't do anything like that. 

    Quoting sha_lyn68:

    The banner wasn't just a one time thing, so there isn't "the game" for them to win, it has been most if not all their games this year. How in the hell would winning or losing prove their religion false or true? That type of ridiculous argument is what drove me away from Christanity to begin with.

    They are free to express themselves when they want and how they want any time other than when they are representing the school. I sear this is getting to be just like the peanutbutter ban arguments. Some parents say that penutbutter bans or restrictions in schools violate t their child's rights to sit and eat peanutbutter wherever they want to  when such actions could cause the death of a classmate. There is a time and a place for expressing ones freedom of religion and freedom of speech and there are times and places where that is not appropriate. IE one does not have the right to scream fire in a crowd just to see how people will react. 



    Quoting Anonymous:

    Are they also considered representatives of the school when they are attending classes during school hours?  Or just when they are on the football field?

    I'm not sure I would agree that students/sports members are "representatives of the school" that shouldn't be allowed to express what they want where they want.  But I guess if it's in the Constitution, then they are.  I wonder what the judge will decide.

    I still am curious, did they win the game?  If not, then I guess their banner will prove their religion false.  Would that make you happy?

    Quoting sha_lyn68:

    No, teeloffel isn't ignoring anything. It is you who are ignoring the fact that there is a difference between exercises one's right to freedom of speech and freedom of religion as a private citizen and as a representative of a government entity. Like it or not, the girls are representatives of the government school when they are in cheerleading uniforms and standing on the football field.

    Quoting Anonymous:

    I looked up the First Amendment link that you provided, and on that page it reads "Congress shall make now law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech . . . . . . ".  It seems that you choose to ignore the part in bold if it suits you.  Also, that same website also supported students' rights to religious expression (see dress code section under the "ABCs of Religion on Public Schools").  I don't see this being any different.  If anything, it seems petty to complain about that simple phrase on a banner. 

    To be completely honest though, I can see both sides to this.  How do we outlaw promoting any religions and respect the right to freedom of speech and religious expression at the same time?  It seems impossible!

    Quoting teeloffel:

    Umm, no. 

    Let me clarify this for you since your self-proclaimed "common sense" seems to only go so far.

    The only way what you're saying would work is if the cheerleaders were in a Private (religious) school. The reason Separation of Church and State applies in this case is because any public school is funded by the government (STATE), therefore it is unconstitutional for a member of a public school sports (or any other) team to include mentions of religion (GOD) during their game.   No one is forcing the cheerleaders to "hide" their religion.  People are simply trying to enforce a law that is already in effect, that was in fact, violated by the cheerleaders.

    Quoting Anonymous:

    Actually, doesn't the separation of church and state actually PROTECT the cheerleaders rights?  If the state outlaws them being able to use their banner because it mentions God, then that's not separating state from church.  The state should have NOTHING at all to do with it, for TRUE separation of church and state.  Which means, they should leave the cheerleaders alone.  If the cheerleaders are being forced to hide their religion in public places, then that is the government intruding on on their freedom.  That, to me, is violating separation of church and state.  Sorry, but your argument actually contradicts what you are trying to say!  And I'm not a Christian btw, just an agnostic with some common sense!

    Quoting teeloffel:

    Gee, wanna know why the separation of church and state is more important?  Because it's part of the CONSTITUTION! You know, the document you xtian windbags love to cite to back your ridiculous complaints.  However, this incident is NOT a violation of ANY of your "constitutional rights (aka - the First Amendment)" ... so stuff it already.  Go find something else to feign persecution over.

    Quoting Jamie1972:

    Schools would be better if religion,all religion not just christianity, was brought back. But that's my opinion. But religion set aside these girls freedom of speech is being trampled on. But since they happened to use their freedom of speech with a religious overtone it doesn't matter. Because apparently separation of church and state is more important. And really what is the big deal. Its a banner that players run thru and pp in a stadium happen to see for 60 seconds before its destroyed by a bunch of boys.


    Quoting Anonymous:

    School sponsored function is school property. And religion has no place in public school.



    Quoting Jamie1972:

    Yes I am. They maybe reps for the school and it maybe a school sponsored event but if its not on school property it shouldnt matter. The school,students, the town itself didn't care one iota about these banners. But some anti religious group got all offended about banners that had. God/or bible veses on them. These girls were not trying to convert or shove religon down ppls throat. Its a simple statement hiw if they have god in their side then the other team can't beat them. Its no different then coaches leading a team prayer fimor a good game or whatever in the lockerroom. Or is that just iffensive?






    Quoting Anonymous:

    Are you serious? It's a school sponsored function and the players are representatives of their schools.







    Quoting Jamie1972:

    If the football feild is not on school grounds then i dont see why they cant have whatever they want on their banners. They are not promoting or trying to convert anyone. Its a statement about the other team, how they cant them  imo

















  • safi
    by safi
    October 6, 2012 at 8:54 AM
    Long time no see. How are u

    Quoting bozobean:

    Couldn't have said it better myself. :o)



    Quoting safi:

    Cuz dressing in mini skirts and jumping around Shaking their asses in front of a bunch of men and puberty crazed boys is totally Godly. Smdh
  • bozobean
    October 6, 2012 at 10:26 AM
    I'm doing ok. I haven't been quite as active in the other groups lately. How are you?

    Quoting safi:

    Long time no see. How are u



    Quoting bozobean:

    Couldn't have said it better myself. :o)





    Quoting safi:

    Cuz dressing in mini skirts and jumping around Shaking their asses in front of a bunch of men and puberty crazed boys is totally Godly. Smdh
  • safi
    by safi
    October 6, 2012 at 11:36 AM
    Yeah me either. Everything is good tho alhamdulillah, glad kids are back in school lol. Anything new with you guys or still kind of the same place?

    Quoting bozobean:

    I'm doing ok. I haven't been quite as active in the other groups lately. How are you?



    Quoting safi:

    Long time no see. How are u





    Quoting bozobean:

    Couldn't have said it better myself. :o)







    Quoting safi:

    Cuz dressing in mini skirts and jumping around Shaking their asses in front of a bunch of men and puberty crazed boys is totally Godly. Smdh
  • bozobean
    October 6, 2012 at 11:43 AM
    Pretty much the same. I'm taking an online course, so i'm learning more.

    Quoting safi:

    Yeah me either. Everything is good tho alhamdulillah, glad kids are back in school lol. Anything new with you guys or still kind of the same place?



    Quoting bozobean:

    I'm doing ok. I haven't been quite as active in the other groups lately. How are you?





    Quoting safi:

    Long time no see. How are u







    Quoting bozobean:

    Couldn't have said it better myself. :o)









    Quoting safi:

    Cuz dressing in mini skirts and jumping around Shaking their asses in front of a bunch of men and puberty crazed boys is totally Godly. Smdh
  • safi
    by safi
    October 6, 2012 at 11:46 AM
    Good stuff. I am on cm all the time, i just dont use MM anymore. If u ever want to message me, feel free

    Quoting bozobean:

    Pretty much the same. I'm taking an online course, so i'm learning more.



    Quoting safi:

    Yeah me either. Everything is good tho alhamdulillah, glad kids are back in school lol. Anything new with you guys or still kind of the same place?





    Quoting bozobean:

    I'm doing ok. I haven't been quite as active in the other groups lately. How are you?







    Quoting safi:

    Long time no see. How are u









    Quoting bozobean:

    Couldn't have said it better myself. :o)











    Quoting safi:

    Cuz dressing in mini skirts and jumping around Shaking their asses in front of a bunch of men and puberty crazed boys is totally Godly. Smdh

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