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Maevelyn
Age and Grades *Another Question
February 27, 2013 at 11:03 PM

So I was studying to be a teacher (and was told to run not walk away from that career path by every teacher I observed.) I noticed in middle schools that there are a lot of kids who have been held back. There was a 17 year old in a 6th grade geography class that I observed. Unless it was an AP or Honors High school class there was always at least one kid who was a minim of 3 to 4 years older than the other students. The boy (man?) in the geography class stood out to me in particular because he was very flirty with some of the girls (some who were 12 and some who were a little bit old 13 or 14 but not 17.) On one hand I feel bad for these kids because they are being grouped in with 12 year olds and are told that these kids are their peers. It's not like you can forbid him from talking to the other students right? But on the other hand, I would not want my 12 year old daughter flirting with or even hanging out with a 17 year old. 

So I guess what I'm asking is: Is it right, if we base when kids enter school on age, to allow older students to be held back more than a few times? I realize there isn't a practical obvious solution but the situation doesn't seem desireable or in anyone's best interest. 

*** If a boy in this situation does end up becoming intamate with a girl and being prosecuted is the school system in some way responcible for setting him up? 

Replies

  • ms-superwoman
    February 28, 2013 at 9:40 AM

    Did he have learning issues? Does he have a mind of a 12 year old? Or was he just slacking off?

    Quoting Maevelyn:

    It isn't what I'd call the norm. I believe that he was exploiting an exception that was put in place for students with disabilities. He went to a school that accommodated students with sever autism so they were used to schedules like his. It was a school that focused on inclusion, so kids would be slipt up into different classes based on their IEP. Unfortunately, in Duval, when you have a program in place for students with a need it tends to get bogged down with other students who, while facing personal problems, aren't actually who the program was intended for. They basically get every other school's problems. Don't get me wrong, some really good things happen because of these programs but you also end up with stuff that just doesn't feel right too. Inclusion of students who should be on about grade level with other kids is one thing (with many disabilities this has been proven to be the best way for them to form social and life skills) but to have it exploited like that - and upsetting parents so much that they don't want their "normal" kids in an inclusive classroom- I just can't see the benefit. 

    Quoting ms-superwoman:

    They wouldn't do that here. We have an alternative school for kids who are failing and/or held back. After 20yrs you aren't allowed to go to the high school.



  • Maevelyn
    February 28, 2013 at 10:16 AM

    I believe that he came from a violent home and that his grandmother now had custody of him. I don't know for sure but I believe he had also spent some time when he was younger in juvenile detention He had to have a parent pushing him into the program, they just don't sign you up for it. I did ask about learning issues and the teacher I was observing said "Only if you can count neglectful parenting and abuse as a learning disability." Which I guess in it's own way really is. 

    Quoting ms-superwoman:

    Did he have learning issues? Does he have a mind of a 12 year old? Or was he just slacking off?

    Quoting Maevelyn:

    It isn't what I'd call the norm. I believe that he was exploiting an exception that was put in place for students with disabilities. He went to a school that accommodated students with sever autism so they were used to schedules like his. It was a school that focused on inclusion, so kids would be slipt up into different classes based on their IEP. Unfortunately, in Duval, when you have a program in place for students with a need it tends to get bogged down with other students who, while facing personal problems, aren't actually who the program was intended for. They basically get every other school's problems. Don't get me wrong, some really good things happen because of these programs but you also end up with stuff that just doesn't feel right too. Inclusion of students who should be on about grade level with other kids is one thing (with many disabilities this has been proven to be the best way for them to form social and life skills) but to have it exploited like that - and upsetting parents so much that they don't want their "normal" kids in an inclusive classroom- I just can't see the benefit. 

    Quoting ms-superwoman:

    They wouldn't do that here. We have an alternative school for kids who are failing and/or held back. After 20yrs you aren't allowed to go to the high school.




  • SlapItHigh
    February 28, 2013 at 11:23 AM

    I don't see a problem with children of all ages being in a class together.  However, the flirting is not ok and should be addressed.

  • ms-superwoman
    February 28, 2013 at 11:25 AM

    That is so sad. :( Poor kid. Here they would have put him into the alternative ed, where the classes are small and he can have a lot of one on one time with the teachers.

    Quoting Maevelyn:

    I believe that he came from a violent home and that his grandmother now had custody of him. I don't know for sure but I believe he had also spent some time when he was younger in juvenile detention He had to have a parent pushing him into the program, they just don't sign you up for it. I did ask about learning issues and the teacher I was observing said "Only if you can count neglectful parenting and abuse as a learning disability." Which I guess in it's own way really is. 

    Quoting ms-superwoman:

    Did he have learning issues? Does he have a mind of a 12 year old? Or was he just slacking off?

    Quoting Maevelyn:

    It isn't what I'd call the norm. I believe that he was exploiting an exception that was put in place for students with disabilities. He went to a school that accommodated students with sever autism so they were used to schedules like his. It was a school that focused on inclusion, so kids would be slipt up into different classes based on their IEP. Unfortunately, in Duval, when you have a program in place for students with a need it tends to get bogged down with other students who, while facing personal problems, aren't actually who the program was intended for. They basically get every other school's problems. Don't get me wrong, some really good things happen because of these programs but you also end up with stuff that just doesn't feel right too. Inclusion of students who should be on about grade level with other kids is one thing (with many disabilities this has been proven to be the best way for them to form social and life skills) but to have it exploited like that - and upsetting parents so much that they don't want their "normal" kids in an inclusive classroom- I just can't see the benefit. 

    Quoting ms-superwoman:

    They wouldn't do that here. We have an alternative school for kids who are failing and/or held back. After 20yrs you aren't allowed to go to the high school.





  • Maevelyn
    February 28, 2013 at 11:58 AM

    I think it would work better if students were always grouped by ability rather than age or grade level. It's hard to address flirting with out the student or his family saying that you're picking on him because he's older. 

    Quoting SlapItHigh:

    I don't see a problem with children of all ages being in a class together.  However, the flirting is not ok and should be addressed.


  • chattycassie
    February 28, 2013 at 5:05 PM

     This is terrible. Students of that age should not be placed with such young children not just the girls but period. Most school seperate the HS kids. I think in this situation maybe he should be given an alternative school as an option. I would throw a fit if a 17 y/o was in my daughters 8th grade class.

  • buzymom93
    March 1, 2013 at 12:32 PM

    when my son was in highschool.. the school had a special class the kids attended if they were behind and needed to make up work or catch up.. they would have never been in with the middle schoolers..

  • Maevelyn
    March 1, 2013 at 1:51 PM

    This was part of the "inclusion is the only way to go" phase and he was taking advantage of a program that was not designed for him. 

    Quoting buzymom93:

    when my son was in highschool.. the school had a special class the kids attended if they were behind and needed to make up work or catch up.. they would have never been in with the middle schoolers..


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