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kirbymom
Indoctrinization OR Overzealousness
February 9 at 4:35 PM
Ran into this article and found it to be quite interesting. I didn't post the whole article as it was extremely long. So I just posted the first paragraph.



Some friends came to us this week, troubled, to ask our advice. It seems their youngest son came home from school on Monday and asked – begged – to be homeschooled.
His request has been a recurrent theme during the past few months, but it took on a particular urgency on Monday when his biology teacher required all the students to sing a song praising Common Core.


Read more at http://mobile.wnd.com/2014/02/hands-off-our-children-big-brother/#UQVXdLLIhiMQaxFH.99


What do You think?

Replies

  • celtic77dragon
    February 9 at 4:41 PM

    I wanted to look up the EXACT definition of indoctrination. This is one of the definitions:

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/indoctrinate

    to teach (someone) to fully accept the ideas, opinions, and beliefs of a particular group and to not consider other ideas, opinions, and beliefs

    to instruct especially in fundamentals or rudiments :  teach

    to imbue with a usually partisan or sectarian opinion, point of view, or principle


    BTW, the definition of overzealous is: Excessively enthusiastic


    Also, here is the clicky to the article:

     http://mobile.wnd.com/2014/02/hands-off-our-children-big-brother/#UQVXdLLIhiMQaxFH.99

  • celtic77dragon
    February 9 at 4:53 PM

    I just finished reading the article.

    I don't know why a 16yr old would be made to sing a common core song but it certainly is not the common practice and it certainly is not close enough to being like the Nazi's. The article lost all crediability with me. I wasnt left wondering about the situation with the 16yr old or if it was indoctrination or overzealousness. I was left thinking "extremists" concerning the article itself. Way to blow something way out of proportion. 

    Anyways, a lot of people think and could say that many homeschoolers are indoctrinating their own kids - who will grow up and play a role in society as a collective whole. 

    Many countries have national curriculums. Only in America do we get all conspiracy theory about it. lol.

  • paganbaby
    February 9 at 5:01 PM


    Quoting celtic77dragon:

    I just finished reading the article.

    I don't know why a 16yr old would be made to sing a common core song but it certainly is not the common practice and it certainly is not close enough to being like the Nazi's. The article lost all crediability with me. I wasnt left wondering about the situation with the 16yr old or if it was indoctrination or overzealousness. I was left thinking "extremists" concerning the article itself. Way to blow something way out of proportion. 

    Anyways, a lot of people think and could say that many homeschoolers are indoctrinating their own kids - who will grow up and play a role in society as a collective whole. 

    Many countries have national curriculums. Only in America do we get all conspiracy theory about it. lol.

    That made me laugh,lol.

  • romacox
    by romacox
    February 9 at 5:43 PM

    "The issue today is the same as it has been throughout all history, whether man shall be allowed to govern himself or be ruled by a small elite."
    -- Thomas Jefferson

    The definition of socialization: (from dictionary.com) 1.  A continuing process whereby  an individual acquires an personal identity, and learns the norms, values, behavior, and social skills appropriate to his or her social position.  (2) the act of making socialistic (socialism) : the socialization of industry. 

    So it is obviously not a conspiracy.  It is simply a difference in ideology. 

    John Taylor Gatto, a recipient of several teacher of the year awards in the  New York public school system, a teacher for 30 years, and a renowned speaker.  Explains it this way:  Public schools are not designed to create individual thinkers.  They are designed to create obedient workers for industry.  He says, think about it, employers do not want a bunch of individual thinkers running around...they want an obedient workforce.  


    Not a conspiracy: simply a difference in ideology.

  • Jenn8604
    February 9 at 5:48 PM
    Whether or not it's overzealousness or indoctrination I sure don't like common core period. I've read up on it. It does not belong in schools.
  • Chasing3
    February 9 at 6:26 PM

    i don't think it's a conspiracy (although I really do love a good conspiracy theory!) and I dislike the comparison to Nazi Germany. But I do think there is a corporate take over of education and the rich and powerful are able to buy the policy they want as it will benefit their business models. Sadly, I think elected officials are stupid and actually believe what the lobbists tell them is good policy to put in place! Plus, they are meglomaniacs who's egos are easily stroked by rich folk who donate millions to their campaigns. I think the country's obsession with smaller government has actually gone a bit too far in teh area of education and people seem to now want to abolish public schools and teacher's unions and hand it all over to charter schools. I firmly believe most charter schools are doing and will continue to do a worse job than public schools as profit is their bottom line.

    I'm not totally opposed to a national curriculum. I am opposed to the Pearson company now holding a monopoly on the standards and curricula that align to them. And, I'm opposed to linking the standards to testing that ranks students and is used to evaluate the effectivness of teachers and schools. And I'm totally opposed to this idea that we need more technology in schools and places like LA spending a billion dollars for an ipad for every child in their district and the removal of books from classrooms and libraries.

  • romacox
    by romacox
    February 9 at 6:42 PM

    Washington Post writes: 

    "I do not believe that any of the players in this project are evil people trying to control the minds of kids.  Rather they are true believers with an ideological allegiance to untested curriculum. "

    "There are big questions that the press needs to ask about Common Core Inc. and all of the vendors (Bill Gates among them)  that are receiving public money. There is also an overarching question that should be asked: Is this an attempt to create a national curriculum by having federal tax dollars flow to New York State and then out again to an organization committed to Common Core curriculum development?  And to all of the business leaders who so enthusiastically support the Common Core—do you want your future workers to count like Sally? Is this the best curriculum that more than $28 million can buy? I think not.  It is time we take a look with eyes wide open."

    Read full article here:  http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2013/11/24/following-the-common-core-money-where-are-millions-of-dollars-going/

    Should our public schools be controlled by an elite group of business owners?  Thank goodness that we still have a choice as home educators. 


  • celtic77dragon
    February 9 at 6:56 PM

    It is true though. The leading countries in education, like Finland, have them. When the USA did research on Finlands education system (what made them superior to every other country in the world, in the way of education) and asked Finland to evaluate ours; the main feedback that Finland gave was that there needed to be a national curriculum. BUT that isnt enough! Finland hires from the top percentage of a graduating class, they requires master degrees, teachers are paid top notch compared to other jobs, the teachers collaborate together, teachers work with another teacher for a few years before going at it 'alone'. The teachers are therefore respected and trusted there. They weren't just magically respected and trusted though - they had to really work hard and go above and beyond to earn that!

    The entire system here is flawed. Instead of blaming and contriving up conspiracy theorys... there needs to be people with the balls to create a real revolution!

    The government controls the system and needs to say we will make education the priority for the good of this country as a whole. You dont like that the government is in control and think it violates some constitutional wordage from forever ago when they couldnt even conceive this future world... then go live in some third world country for awhile and get over it. I think it will put things in perspective.

    The government needs to say that we will invest the money in education, we will set solid and proven policy in place, and tell the American people to f*ck off if they dont like it (because they never can agree with anything anyways and just like to whine and b*tch than be a productive part of the solution). Put healthy food in the schools, take money from these rich schools that are building freaking campuses like colleges and supply the poor schools with decent faculties. Require master degrees for teachers, hire the top of the classes, and pay them the amazing wages. Then have a national curriculum so that every school teaches the same things basically in each grade level BUT trust the teachers to get the job done. Do the testing a few times throughout a childs academic career (I understand the importance of measurement and data); maybe test in 4, 8 and 12 grade. 

    I mean, it really isnt too hard except that people wouldnt like it. Americans are stubborn asses. Seriously, when Jamie Oliver started his food revolution he was SHOCKED at how America responded to him (and he has done it in several countries). Not just the adults, but the kids too. So it seems obvious to me that the government has its hands full trying to deal with the modern day Americans if you ask me. It isnt JUST the government that is the problem with America!!! Those old founding fathers were right to be worried about trusting a future society and giving so much power to the people.

    Didnt mean to aim this at you Paganbaby - nor is it intended at you. 

    Quoting paganbaby:


    Quoting celtic77dragon:

    I just finished reading the article.

    I don't know why a 16yr old would be made to sing a common core song but it certainly is not the common practice and it certainly is not close enough to being like the Nazi's. The article lost all crediability with me. I wasnt left wondering about the situation with the 16yr old or if it was indoctrination or overzealousness. I was left thinking "extremists" concerning the article itself. Way to blow something way out of proportion. 

    Anyways, a lot of people think and could say that many homeschoolers are indoctrinating their own kids - who will grow up and play a role in society as a collective whole. 

    Many countries have national curriculums. Only in America do we get all conspiracy theory about it. lol.

    That made me laugh,lol.


  • AutymsMommy
    February 9 at 7:19 PM

    The big difference between our attempt at a national curriculum, and that in other countries, is that (generally speaking; correct me if I'm wrong) in other countries a teacher's value is known and THEY have a heavy hand in making that curriculum. Here, it is made by those in a position of power with NO classroom experience.

  • celtic77dragon
    February 9 at 7:29 PM

    And that is what I addressed in my above comment. The teachers are held to a high standard than here in the USA. You cant tell everyone that they can do and be anything and give the keys to any fool who asks for them - and expect respect and solid results. 

    Those teachers are required to have masters degrees. They have to graduate at the top of their class. They are trained for years before going at it alone. The government creates the curriculum standards BUT allows for teacher imput. The materials used are not teacher created - however, how they are utilized is dependent on the teacher. The teacher collaborate with each other. They have glass cubicles for the teachers, in a professional looking setting, and they discuss ideas and seek advice from another. 


    Quoting AutymsMommy:

    The big difference between our attempt at a national curriculum, and that in other countries, is that (generally speaking; correct me if I'm wrong) in other countries a teacher's value is known and THEY have a heavy hand in making that curriculum. Here, it is made by those in a position of power with NO classroom experience.


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