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bluerooffarm
I Said No!
November 19, 2013 at 2:55 PM

 Have you talked to your kids about "red flag" situations?  I have ordered the book "I Said No! A Kid to kid guide to keeping your private parts private"

I was wondering if this was a topic you ladies have done already.  How did you handle it?  What age did you start?  At this point my 6 and 8 year olds are beginning to really go out into the world: soccer practice by themselves, youth group meetings, etc.  I think it's time to start explaining the situations they could face and give them the tools to handle it.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Said-guide-keeping-private-parts/dp/1878076493/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1384890629&sr=8-1&keywords=i+said+no+a+kic-to-kid+guide+to+keeping+your+private+parts+private

Replies

  • Brandy85412
    November 20, 2013 at 7:43 PM
    I have started talking about it with my kids ages 5 and 3. I bring it up every once in awhile to remind them.
  • bluerooffarm
    November 21, 2013 at 8:10 AM

     

    Quoting KickButtMama:

    We started talking about private parts and keeping them private from the time they were toddlers. We talked about how someone who touched them might be someone they trust and love, and they most likely with threaten the family for them not to tell, and how to handle the situation. 

     We've never called their private parts by any nicknames (drives my MIL crazy!) and talked about keeping them covered and private in public.  We've just never really talked about the threatening and how to handle it.

  • bluerooffarm
    November 21, 2013 at 8:19 AM

     That seems like an interesting perspective that you wish it could have waited until they were older.  We have been very fortunate that I have never needed to work since the kids were born and so they just never have spent time with anyone else besides my parents. 

    I'm sure my sons would have told me if something like that happened to them, because we have had discussions about private parts being private (closing the bathroom door, etc) and they always look at me to see if it's okay to take down their pants for the doctor.  I'm so glad she was safe with the poor guy!  But I can't imagine how scary that would have been for you to hear.

     

    Quoting TJandKarasMom:

    Unfortunately we had these talks at a very young age with our kids.  Since they are not just OUR kids (one is mine, one is DHs...we now have full custody of both, but we shared custody of both when they were babies/toddlers).  There was one incident with DD's biomoms boyfriend...turns out he was putting medicine on DD bc she had a yeast infection (which she shouldn't have had...but she did have one, biomom had to work and so the boyfriend-poor guy-was asked to put the medicine on DD...DD reported to me the next day and I immediately called DH at work and it was quite a big deal...knowing the now ex boyfriend a little better later on, we feel that DD was safe in his care, but nothing prepares you for a little girl telling you something like that).

    So we have basically always had the conversations since our kids have always spent time with people other than DH and me and we didn't always have control over who they were left alone with.

    That sounds like a good book for broaching the subject though, I wish we could have waited until they were much older for those kinds of talks. 

     

  • TJandKarasMom
    November 21, 2013 at 8:35 AM

    My kids also look at me before removing any clothing for the dr! lol.  DS was 11 this year and the dr had me leave the room, first time ever!  It was weird, and DS told me about it as we left the office, the dr made him cough, lol...it made me laugh that he is old enough for that.  Then we explained to him WHY the dr has to do that.

    We had had the talks with both kids, that's why DD told me.  It just came out when she was talking, she was like 3 maybe.  What had concerned me is she said he did it in her bed.  While DH and I were very careful to keep the medicine to the bathroom and explain to her why we needed to put the medicine on her.  I wish there had been better communication between all of us so we could have set some ground rules-like medicine in the bathroom, or no males doing it, or something.  Even DH gave DD the choice of me or him doing it (I have helped raise DD since she was 1, so I'm just like an extra parent).  When she was 8, we had to send her half way across the country to visit her biomom and new stepdad, I cannot even describe how anxious we were about that.  It went ok as far as we know, we haven't heard anything questionable.  But sending an 8 yo to another state for 5 days...seriously worst 5 days of my life!  I have never worried so much in that amount of time!


    Quoting bluerooffarm:

     That seems like an interesting perspective that you wish it could have waited until they were older.  We have been very fortunate that I have never needed to work since the kids were born and so they just never have spent time with anyone else besides my parents. 

    I'm sure my sons would have told me if something like that happened to them, because we have had discussions about private parts being private (closing the bathroom door, etc) and they always look at me to see if it's okay to take down their pants for the doctor.  I'm so glad she was safe with the poor guy!  But I can't imagine how scary that would have been for you to hear.

     

    Quoting TJandKarasMom:

    Unfortunately we had these talks at a very young age with our kids.  Since they are not just OUR kids (one is mine, one is DHs...we now have full custody of both, but we shared custody of both when they were babies/toddlers).  There was one incident with DD's biomoms boyfriend...turns out he was putting medicine on DD bc she had a yeast infection (which she shouldn't have had...but she did have one, biomom had to work and so the boyfriend-poor guy-was asked to put the medicine on DD...DD reported to me the next day and I immediately called DH at work and it was quite a big deal...knowing the now ex boyfriend a little better later on, we feel that DD was safe in his care, but nothing prepares you for a little girl telling you something like that).

    So we have basically always had the conversations since our kids have always spent time with people other than DH and me and we didn't always have control over who they were left alone with.

    That sounds like a good book for broaching the subject though, I wish we could have waited until they were much older for those kinds of talks. 

     



  • bluerooffarm
    November 21, 2013 at 8:59 AM

     I'll bet it's terrible!  I can't imagine sending my 8yo  away.  My parents have asked if they could take him across the country next year for vacation.  I was leery, but I think I'm going to allow it.  I'm not sure when we will get the opportunity for the boys to see the Grand Canyon, Painted desert, etc, so he'll just get so much out of it.  But I'm still a bit concerned about it.

    I think the doctor should have explained why he wanted you to leave, what he would be doing, etc and allowed you to have time to explain it beforehand.  But at least it worked out.

    Quoting TJandKarasMom:

    My kids also look at me before removing any clothing for the dr! lol.  DS was 11 this year and the dr had me leave the room, first time ever!  It was weird, and DS told me about it as we left the office, the dr made him cough, lol...it made me laugh that he is old enough for that.  Then we explained to him WHY the dr has to do that.

    We had had the talks with both kids, that's why DD told me.  It just came out when she was talking, she was like 3 maybe.  What had concerned me is she said he did it in her bed.  While DH and I were very careful to keep the medicine to the bathroom and explain to her why we needed to put the medicine on her.  I wish there had been better communication between all of us so we could have set some ground rules-like medicine in the bathroom, or no males doing it, or something.  Even DH gave DD the choice of me or him doing it (I have helped raise DD since she was 1, so I'm just like an extra parent).  When she was 8, we had to send her half way across the country to visit her biomom and new stepdad, I cannot even describe how anxious we were about that.  It went ok as far as we know, we haven't heard anything questionable.  But sending an 8 yo to another state for 5 days...seriously worst 5 days of my life!  I have never worried so much in that amount of time!

     

    Quoting bluerooffarm:

     That seems like an interesting perspective that you wish it could have waited until they were older.  We have been very fortunate that I have never needed to work since the kids were born and so they just never have spent time with anyone else besides my parents. 

    I'm sure my sons would have told me if something like that happened to them, because we have had discussions about private parts being private (closing the bathroom door, etc) and they always look at me to see if it's okay to take down their pants for the doctor.  I'm so glad she was safe with the poor guy!  But I can't imagine how scary that would have been for you to hear.

     

    Quoting TJandKarasMom:

    Unfortunately we had these talks at a very young age with our kids.  Since they are not just OUR kids (one is mine, one is DHs...we now have full custody of both, but we shared custody of both when they were babies/toddlers).  There was one incident with DD's biomoms boyfriend...turns out he was putting medicine on DD bc she had a yeast infection (which she shouldn't have had...but she did have one, biomom had to work and so the boyfriend-poor guy-was asked to put the medicine on DD...DD reported to me the next day and I immediately called DH at work and it was quite a big deal...knowing the now ex boyfriend a little better later on, we feel that DD was safe in his care, but nothing prepares you for a little girl telling you something like that).

    So we have basically always had the conversations since our kids have always spent time with people other than DH and me and we didn't always have control over who they were left alone with.

    That sounds like a good book for broaching the subject though, I wish we could have waited until they were much older for those kinds of talks. 

     

     

     

     

  • TJandKarasMom
    November 21, 2013 at 10:26 AM

    The doctor did briefly tell me what he was going to do, and gave DS the option of having me stay or go.  The doctor also had a female student doctor and gave DS the choice of having her leave as well.  She and I both left, and she told me how funny DS was and how much he made her day, lol little wiseguy, always has a joke  ;)

    Luckily for me (not so great for DD though), her biomom has had no interest in seeing her since that visit.  That was Christmas of 2011 :(  The last time she even spoke to DD on the phone was April 2012.  It's good and bad, sometimes DD misses her and has a hard time understanding why biomom doesn't call, etc...but most of the time she kind of forgets that what we have isn't just a normal family.  She also didn't like going that far away to visit, so I think it's been a little easier for her to just not have to worry about that.  

    I think the trip would be great for your son, it's a little different having your parents take him too.  And that will be a great experience!


    Quoting bluerooffarm:

     I'll bet it's terrible!  I can't imagine sending my 8yo  away.  My parents have asked if they could take him across the country next year for vacation.  I was leery, but I think I'm going to allow it.  I'm not sure when we will get the opportunity for the boys to see the Grand Canyon, Painted desert, etc, so he'll just get so much out of it.  But I'm still a bit concerned about it.

    I think the doctor should have explained why he wanted you to leave, what he would be doing, etc and allowed you to have time to explain it beforehand.  But at least it worked out.

    Quoting TJandKarasMom:

    My kids also look at me before removing any clothing for the dr! lol.  DS was 11 this year and the dr had me leave the room, first time ever!  It was weird, and DS told me about it as we left the office, the dr made him cough, lol...it made me laugh that he is old enough for that.  Then we explained to him WHY the dr has to do that.

    We had had the talks with both kids, that's why DD told me.  It just came out when she was talking, she was like 3 maybe.  What had concerned me is she said he did it in her bed.  While DH and I were very careful to keep the medicine to the bathroom and explain to her why we needed to put the medicine on her.  I wish there had been better communication between all of us so we could have set some ground rules-like medicine in the bathroom, or no males doing it, or something.  Even DH gave DD the choice of me or him doing it (I have helped raise DD since she was 1, so I'm just like an extra parent).  When she was 8, we had to send her half way across the country to visit her biomom and new stepdad, I cannot even describe how anxious we were about that.  It went ok as far as we know, we haven't heard anything questionable.  But sending an 8 yo to another state for 5 days...seriously worst 5 days of my life!  I have never worried so much in that amount of time!


    Quoting bluerooffarm:

     That seems like an interesting perspective that you wish it could have waited until they were older.  We have been very fortunate that I have never needed to work since the kids were born and so they just never have spent time with anyone else besides my parents. 

    I'm sure my sons would have told me if something like that happened to them, because we have had discussions about private parts being private (closing the bathroom door, etc) and they always look at me to see if it's okay to take down their pants for the doctor.  I'm so glad she was safe with the poor guy!  But I can't imagine how scary that would have been for you to hear.

     

    Quoting TJandKarasMom:

    Unfortunately we had these talks at a very young age with our kids.  Since they are not just OUR kids (one is mine, one is DHs...we now have full custody of both, but we shared custody of both when they were babies/toddlers).  There was one incident with DD's biomoms boyfriend...turns out he was putting medicine on DD bc she had a yeast infection (which she shouldn't have had...but she did have one, biomom had to work and so the boyfriend-poor guy-was asked to put the medicine on DD...DD reported to me the next day and I immediately called DH at work and it was quite a big deal...knowing the now ex boyfriend a little better later on, we feel that DD was safe in his care, but nothing prepares you for a little girl telling you something like that).

    So we have basically always had the conversations since our kids have always spent time with people other than DH and me and we didn't always have control over who they were left alone with.

    That sounds like a good book for broaching the subject though, I wish we could have waited until they were much older for those kinds of talks. 

     



     



  • bluerooffarm
    November 21, 2013 at 11:30 AM

     OMG!  I cannot imagine not having contact with one of my children.  I just can't fathom that. 

    I'm sure he will have a great experience, but I am going to worry.  It's mom's job, right?  ;-)

    Quoting TJandKarasMom:

    The doctor did briefly tell me what he was going to do, and gave DS the option of having me stay or go.  The doctor also had a female student doctor and gave DS the choice of having her leave as well.  She and I both left, and she told me how funny DS was and how much he made her day, lol little wiseguy, always has a joke  ;)

    Luckily for me (not so great for DD though), her biomom has had no interest in seeing her since that visit.  That was Christmas of 2011 :(  The last time she even spoke to DD on the phone was April 2012.  It's good and bad, sometimes DD misses her and has a hard time understanding why biomom doesn't call, etc...but most of the time she kind of forgets that what we have isn't just a normal family.  She also didn't like going that far away to visit, so I think it's been a little easier for her to just not have to worry about that.  

    I think the trip would be great for your son, it's a little different having your parents take him too.  And that will be a great experience!

     

    Quoting bluerooffarm:

     I'll bet it's terrible!  I can't imagine sending my 8yo  away.  My parents have asked if they could take him across the country next year for vacation.  I was leery, but I think I'm going to allow it.  I'm not sure when we will get the opportunity for the boys to see the Grand Canyon, Painted desert, etc, so he'll just get so much out of it.  But I'm still a bit concerned about it.

    I think the doctor should have explained why he wanted you to leave, what he would be doing, etc and allowed you to have time to explain it beforehand.  But at least it worked out.

    Quoting TJandKarasMom:

    My kids also look at me before removing any clothing for the dr! lol.  DS was 11 this year and the dr had me leave the room, first time ever!  It was weird, and DS told me about it as we left the office, the dr made him cough, lol...it made me laugh that he is old enough for that.  Then we explained to him WHY the dr has to do that.

    We had had the talks with both kids, that's why DD told me.  It just came out when she was talking, she was like 3 maybe.  What had concerned me is she said he did it in her bed.  While DH and I were very careful to keep the medicine to the bathroom and explain to her why we needed to put the medicine on her.  I wish there had been better communication between all of us so we could have set some ground rules-like medicine in the bathroom, or no males doing it, or something.  Even DH gave DD the choice of me or him doing it (I have helped raise DD since she was 1, so I'm just like an extra parent).  When she was 8, we had to send her half way across the country to visit her biomom and new stepdad, I cannot even describe how anxious we were about that.  It went ok as far as we know, we haven't heard anything questionable.  But sending an 8 yo to another state for 5 days...seriously worst 5 days of my life!  I have never worried so much in that amount of time!

     

    Quoting bluerooffarm:

     That seems like an interesting perspective that you wish it could have waited until they were older.  We have been very fortunate that I have never needed to work since the kids were born and so they just never have spent time with anyone else besides my parents. 

    I'm sure my sons would have told me if something like that happened to them, because we have had discussions about private parts being private (closing the bathroom door, etc) and they always look at me to see if it's okay to take down their pants for the doctor.  I'm so glad she was safe with the poor guy!  But I can't imagine how scary that would have been for you to hear.

     

    Quoting TJandKarasMom:

    Unfortunately we had these talks at a very young age with our kids.  Since they are not just OUR kids (one is mine, one is DHs...we now have full custody of both, but we shared custody of both when they were babies/toddlers).  There was one incident with DD's biomoms boyfriend...turns out he was putting medicine on DD bc she had a yeast infection (which she shouldn't have had...but she did have one, biomom had to work and so the boyfriend-poor guy-was asked to put the medicine on DD...DD reported to me the next day and I immediately called DH at work and it was quite a big deal...knowing the now ex boyfriend a little better later on, we feel that DD was safe in his care, but nothing prepares you for a little girl telling you something like that).

    So we have basically always had the conversations since our kids have always spent time with people other than DH and me and we didn't always have control over who they were left alone with.

    That sounds like a good book for broaching the subject though, I wish we could have waited until they were much older for those kinds of talks. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

  • TJandKarasMom
    November 21, 2013 at 7:30 PM
    I am not sure I will ever understand biomom having no contact with DD. She also has a younger DD with a second dad, she lives with dad and his parents-his agents have guardianship but mom was trying to terminate it...but she has hardly had contact, stopped paying child support, and hasn't visited with her in quite a while. And she is now married and has a son..DD doesn't even know she has a baby brother. We shouldn't even know about it. But it will kill DD to know mom is keeping the son but doesn't even call her :(. It's so sad.


    Quoting bluerooffarm:

     OMG!  I cannot imagine not having contact with one of my children.  I just can't fathom that. 


    I'm sure he will have a great experience, but I am going to worry.  It's mom's job, right?  ;-)


    Quoting TJandKarasMom:


    The doctor did briefly tell me what he was going to do, and gave DS the option of having me stay or go.  The doctor also had a female student doctor and gave DS the choice of having her leave as well.  She and I both left, and she told me how funny DS was and how much he made her day, lol little wiseguy, always has a joke  ;)


    Luckily for me (not so great for DD though), her biomom has had no interest in seeing her since that visit.  That was Christmas of 2011 :(  The last time she even spoke to DD on the phone was April 2012.  It's good and bad, sometimes DD misses her and has a hard time understanding why biomom doesn't call, etc...but most of the time she kind of forgets that what we have isn't just a normal family.  She also didn't like going that far away to visit, so I think it's been a little easier for her to just not have to worry about that.  


    I think the trip would be great for your son, it's a little different having your parents take him too.  And that will be a great experience!


     


    Quoting bluerooffarm:


     I'll bet it's terrible!  I can't imagine sending my 8yo  away.  My parents have asked if they could take him across the country next year for vacation.  I was leery, but I think I'm going to allow it.  I'm not sure when we will get the opportunity for the boys to see the Grand Canyon, Painted desert, etc, so he'll just get so much out of it.  But I'm still a bit concerned about it.


    I think the doctor should have explained why he wanted you to leave, what he would be doing, etc and allowed you to have time to explain it beforehand.  But at least it worked out.


    Quoting TJandKarasMom:


    My kids also look at me before removing any clothing for the dr! lol.  DS was 11 this year and the dr had me leave the room, first time ever!  It was weird, and DS told me about it as we left the office, the dr made him cough, lol...it made me laugh that he is old enough for that.  Then we explained to him WHY the dr has to do that.


    We had had the talks with both kids, that's why DD told me.  It just came out when she was talking, she was like 3 maybe.  What had concerned me is she said he did it in her bed.  While DH and I were very careful to keep the medicine to the bathroom and explain to her why we needed to put the medicine on her.  I wish there had been better communication between all of us so we could have set some ground rules-like medicine in the bathroom, or no males doing it, or something.  Even DH gave DD the choice of me or him doing it (I have helped raise DD since she was 1, so I'm just like an extra parent).  When she was 8, we had to send her half way across the country to visit her biomom and new stepdad, I cannot even describe how anxious we were about that.  It went ok as far as we know, we haven't heard anything questionable.  But sending an 8 yo to another state for 5 days...seriously worst 5 days of my life!  I have never worried so much in that amount of time!


     


    Quoting bluerooffarm:


     That seems like an interesting perspective that you wish it could have waited until they were older.  We have been very fortunate that I have never needed to work since the kids were born and so they just never have spent time with anyone else besides my parents. 


    I'm sure my sons would have told me if something like that happened to them, because we have had discussions about private parts being private (closing the bathroom door, etc) and they always look at me to see if it's okay to take down their pants for the doctor.  I'm so glad she was safe with the poor guy!  But I can't imagine how scary that would have been for you to hear.


     


    Quoting TJandKarasMom:


    Unfortunately we had these talks at a very young age with our kids.  Since they are not just OUR kids (one is mine, one is DHs...we now have full custody of both, but we shared custody of both when they were babies/toddlers).  There was one incident with DD's biomoms boyfriend...turns out he was putting medicine on DD bc she had a yeast infection (which she shouldn't have had...but she did have one, biomom had to work and so the boyfriend-poor guy-was asked to put the medicine on DD...DD reported to me the next day and I immediately called DH at work and it was quite a big deal...knowing the now ex boyfriend a little better later on, we feel that DD was safe in his care, but nothing prepares you for a little girl telling you something like that).


    So we have basically always had the conversations since our kids have always spent time with people other than DH and me and we didn't always have control over who they were left alone with.


    That sounds like a good book for broaching the subject though, I wish we could have waited until they were much older for those kinds of talks. 


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


  • bluerooffarm
    November 21, 2013 at 7:38 PM

    Wow!  I can't even wrap my mind around all that, I feel for your DD. Such a sad situation. :-(

    Quoting TJandKarasMom:

    I am not sure I will ever understand biomom having no contact with DD. She also has a younger DD with a second dad, she lives with dad and his parents-his agents have guardianship but mom was trying to terminate it...but she has hardly had contact, stopped paying child support, and hasn't visited with her in quite a while. And she is now married and has a son..DD doesn't even know she has a baby brother. We shouldn't even know about it. But it will kill DD to know mom is keeping the son but doesn't even call her :(. It's so sad.


    Quoting bluerooffarm:

     OMG!  I cannot imagine not having contact with one of my children.  I just can't fathom that. 


    I'm sure he will have a great experience, but I am going to worry.  It's mom's job, right?  ;-)


    Quoting TJandKarasMom:


    The doctor did briefly tell me what he was going to do, and gave DS the option of having me stay or go.  The doctor also had a female student doctor and gave DS the choice of having her leave as well.  She and I both left, and she told me how funny DS was and how much he made her day, lol little wiseguy, always has a joke  ;)


    Luckily for me (not so great for DD though), her biomom has had no interest in seeing her since that visit.  That was Christmas of 2011 :(  The last time she even spoke to DD on the phone was April 2012.  It's good and bad, sometimes DD misses her and has a hard time understanding why biomom doesn't call, etc...but most of the time she kind of forgets that what we have isn't just a normal family.  She also didn't like going that far away to visit, so I think it's been a little easier for her to just not have to worry about that.  


    I think the trip would be great for your son, it's a little different having your parents take him too.  And that will be a great experience!




    Quoting bluerooffarm:


     I'll bet it's terrible!  I can't imagine sending my 8yo  away.  My parents have asked if they could take him across the country next year for vacation.  I was leery, but I think I'm going to allow it.  I'm not sure when we will get the opportunity for the boys to see the Grand Canyon, Painted desert, etc, so he'll just get so much out of it.  But I'm still a bit concerned about it.


    I think the doctor should have explained why he wanted you to leave, what he would be doing, etc and allowed you to have time to explain it beforehand.  But at least it worked out.


    Quoting TJandKarasMom:


    My kids also look at me before removing any clothing for the dr! lol.  DS was 11 this year and the dr had me leave the room, first time ever!  It was weird, and DS told me about it as we left the office, the dr made him cough, lol...it made me laugh that he is old enough for that.  Then we explained to him WHY the dr has to do that.


    We had had the talks with both kids, that's why DD told me.  It just came out when she was talking, she was like 3 maybe.  What had concerned me is she said he did it in her bed.  While DH and I were very careful to keep the medicine to the bathroom and explain to her why we needed to put the medicine on her.  I wish there had been better communication between all of us so we could have set some ground rules-like medicine in the bathroom, or no males doing it, or something.  Even DH gave DD the choice of me or him doing it (I have helped raise DD since she was 1, so I'm just like an extra parent).  When she was 8, we had to send her half way across the country to visit her biomom and new stepdad, I cannot even describe how anxious we were about that.  It went ok as far as we know, we haven't heard anything questionable.  But sending an 8 yo to another state for 5 days...seriously worst 5 days of my life!  I have never worried so much in that amount of time!




    Quoting bluerooffarm:


     That seems like an interesting perspective that you wish it could have waited until they were older.  We have been very fortunate that I have never needed to work since the kids were born and so they just never have spent time with anyone else besides my parents. 


    I'm sure my sons would have told me if something like that happened to them, because we have had discussions about private parts being private (closing the bathroom door, etc) and they always look at me to see if it's okay to take down their pants for the doctor.  I'm so glad she was safe with the poor guy!  But I can't imagine how scary that would have been for you to hear.


     


    Quoting TJandKarasMom:


    Unfortunately we had these talks at a very young age with our kids.  Since they are not just OUR kids (one is mine, one is DHs...we now have full custody of both, but we shared custody of both when they were babies/toddlers).  There was one incident with DD's biomoms boyfriend...turns out he was putting medicine on DD bc she had a yeast infection (which she shouldn't have had...but she did have one, biomom had to work and so the boyfriend-poor guy-was asked to put the medicine on DD...DD reported to me the next day and I immediately called DH at work and it was quite a big deal...knowing the now ex boyfriend a little better later on, we feel that DD was safe in his care, but nothing prepares you for a little girl telling you something like that).


    So we have basically always had the conversations since our kids have always spent time with people other than DH and me and we didn't always have control over who they were left alone with.


    That sounds like a good book for broaching the subject though, I wish we could have waited until they were much older for those kinds of talks. 


     






     






     



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