Homeschooling Moms

celticdragon77
the college debate...
June 25, 2013 at 3:45 AM

These are not suitable videos for everyone here...

Replies

  • Bleacheddecay
    June 25, 2013 at 12:27 PM

    Personally I see college as an invaluable time of personal growth. I don't see it as a rip off. One of my big homeschooling goals was to have every door I could open for my kids.

    Both my kids got college scholarships, one academic, one athletic but one has dropped out. His path will lead him another way. He still learned a great deal about himself in that one semester. I'm glad he went and tried.

  • bluerooffarm
    June 25, 2013 at 1:07 PM

     I think that viewing college as a rip off means that one believes that getting a college aducation will pay off monetarily.  If you (general) see college as an opportunity to learn, to "find yourself" (sorry, don't mean it in a cheesy way), to open your mind to new experiences, and to develop skills about which you care; then college can never be a rip off.  No one can ever take those learning experiences off of you.  My hubby goes through these phases every time he gets laid off.  He was fed the idea that if he became an engineer life would be jelly beans and rainbows.  Life isn't that way.  Colleges sell this unattainable product at this point.  They talk about their 98% placement rate and they give a list of mean average salaries that are far above what most people can expect.  But all of that is just boiling education down to its monetary base-line.  It is far more than that.

  • celticdragon77
    June 25, 2013 at 2:24 PM

    I think there was a time when colleges were more like what you are describing. I think that they have quickly become more of an archaic system in todays world.

    MOST people go to college to get a job. A decent paying one. They invest the money to obtain the education and diploma required to do so. 

    I do not think that so many would have the dream and/or pursue it, if it was based solely for the purpose of education in of itself. Certainly I do not believe that people would enslave themselves to the massive debts (especially in such an unstable economy), if they believed that is was purely for the sake of education. 

    Many people feel the information was not useful to their careers or their lives.

    In todays world, a worldly education is easily accessible to those that have the perseverence and mental capability to obtain it for themselves.

    I know the system is in large part built upon these institutions and ideas. You can't just pull that out without causing a fall in the deck of cards. However, I do think that the price of these educations are HUGELY inflated in todays world.

    I have no interest in having a career as a teacher. However, I went to Millersville, got the list of books and classes offered to teachers. I also have a relative that recently finished her degree as a teacher at the school here. I buy the books and read her notes on the classes. Plus, I do research and read books outside of their scope. I wish I had time for online discussions. Granted, it is only part of the education - but it also costs me next to nothing. Educations are easy to come by. Might not be useful career wise, but they can be had for cheap. 

     

    Quoting bluerooffarm:

     I think that viewing college as a rip off means that one believes that getting a college aducation will pay off monetarily.  If you (general) see college as an opportunity to learn, to "find yourself" (sorry, don't mean it in a cheesy way), to open your mind to new experiences, and to develop skills about which you care; then college can never be a rip off.  No one can ever take those learning experiences off of you.  My hubby goes through these phases every time he gets laid off.  He was fed the idea that if he became an engineer life would be jelly beans and rainbows.  Life isn't that way.  Colleges sell this unattainable product at this point.  They talk about their 98% placement rate and they give a list of mean average salaries that are far above what most people can expect.  But all of that is just boiling education down to its monetary base-line.  It is far more than that.


  • celticdragon77
    June 25, 2013 at 2:28 PM

    Oh, trust me, I wish I would have had a different life, and had that opportunity. I also hope that if my kids desire that, that they can obtain it. But I also don't want to sell it as the best or only way to go in life. Sometimes, it is a fools trap. 

    Quoting Bleacheddecay:

    Personally I see college as an invaluable time of personal growth. I don't see it as a rip off. One of my big homeschooling goals was to have every door I could open for my kids.

    Both my kids got college scholarships, one academic, one athletic but one has dropped out. His path will lead him another way. He still learned a great deal about himself in that one semester. I'm glad he went and tried.


  • hipmomto3
    June 25, 2013 at 2:50 PM
    The only type of 'college' I'd consider a true rip-off is ITT Tech (& similar brands) that charge exorbitant fees for highly specialized training with false promises of big $ after graduation. I know several people who fell for it, and wind up with $80k in debt for an AS, and no job!

    Otherwise, college is very important IMO. You have to be smart about it. A BA in philosophy is never going to get you a job. But the best paying jobs & highest satisfaction jobs require college.
  • bluerooffarm
    June 25, 2013 at 2:51 PM

     I think there is something to be said for going to a college and surrounding yourself with people different from your upbringing and emersing yourself in the college atmosphere while you are still unencumbered enough to do it (no kids, no hubby, no other bills, etc)  I think that the federal government has created a false supply of money for the colleges and therefore the colleges raise their rates to get more share of that money and that has inflated the price. 

    The other part of that is the culture story.  Our culture tells parents and children that everyone "needs" an education.  "Getting an education will raise your standard of living."  And my favorite, "to be 'successfull' you need a degree."  As a teacher I often had to break it to parents that their kids were not college material.  Then I had to help pick up the pieces.  Sad really!

    We need people to stand up and say it is OK if you are not cut out for a traditional 4 year college degree. 

    College is very important to us (my hubby and I) because we both went to college.  My oldest should go to college.  He learns that way, he is curious about things that could be satiated in a college atmosphere.  My middle boy (unless he changes and let's face it he is young!!)  as it sits right now, should go to a trade school or get on the job training.  But already I've been told I need to puch him toward college.  For him and his learning style right now, it would be a waste.  It may be a good idea for him to go for a semester and see, but he'll learn more as you described, getting his education through the books and through his interests.

    I went to college to get an education.  Not to get a job.  (and I'm only 35).  I was the only person in the history of my college to have a major in Secondary English Education with minors in Math, Physics, and Women's Studies.  LOL  I went through 3 advisors before they realized that I wanted an education and put me back under my first advisor again!  :o)  So you can still get that kind of an experience, but you have to be willing to fight for it.

    As for debts.  I got the loans and I worked my butt off to pay them off.  I worked while I went to college to pay for what the loans didn't cover.  I lived in an economy rat trap!  LOL  I was probably one of the last people to use a typewriter in college instead of a word processor or computer.  I feel that my kids would do well to have a similar experience.  But again I have already been told by many that I should shoulder their burden as well.  I feel that I should help them out, but it was definately character building for me to go through that.  I just feel that college needs to be seen as a very personal decision.  I will not decide for them (help them decide, yes) it's a debt you have to choose for yourself.  But then once you choose it, you need to remember that you chose it.  I really hate to hear people say they had no choice but to go to college.  I do not for one minute believe that. 

    I'd like to see a college bubble.  I thnk changing the culture story will help with that and I think news stories like the ones you posted will help change the story.  It will at least give the perspective that college isn't THE answer.  It's AN answer.  For many it is an impossible answer, like aiming for the bullseye of the wrong target.  It won't get the results you want.

    Quoting celticdragon77:

    I think there was a time when colleges were more like what you are describing. I think that they have quickly become more of an archaic system in todays world.

    MOST people go to college to get a job. A decent paying one. They invest the money to obtain the education and diploma required to do so. 

    I do not think that so many would have the dream and/or pursue it, if it was based solely for the purpose of education in of itself. Certainly I do not believe that people would enslave themselves to the massive debts (especially in such an unstable economy), if they believed that is was purely for the sake of education. 

    Many people feel the information was not useful to their careers or their lives.

    In todays world, a worldly education is easily accessible to those that have the perseverence and mental capability to obtain it for themselves.

    I know the system is in large part built upon these institutions and ideas. You can't just pull that out without causing a fall in the deck of cards. However, I do think that the price of these educations are HUGELY inflated in todays world.

    I have no interest in having a career as a teacher. However, I went to Millersville, got the list of books and classes offered to teachers. I also have a relative that recently finished her degree as a teacher at the school here. I buy the books and read her notes on the classes. Plus, I do research and read books outside of their scope. I wish I had time for online discussions. Granted, it is only part of the education - but it also costs me next to nothing. Educations are easy to come by. Might not be useful career wise, but they can be had for cheap. 

     

    Quoting bluerooffarm:

     I think that viewing college as a rip off means that one believes that getting a college aducation will pay off monetarily.  If you (general) see college as an opportunity to learn, to "find yourself" (sorry, don't mean it in a cheesy way), to open your mind to new experiences, and to develop skills about which you care; then college can never be a rip off.  No one can ever take those learning experiences off of you.  My hubby goes through these phases every time he gets laid off.  He was fed the idea that if he became an engineer life would be jelly beans and rainbows.  Life isn't that way.  Colleges sell this unattainable product at this point.  They talk about their 98% placement rate and they give a list of mean average salaries that are far above what most people can expect.  But all of that is just boiling education down to its monetary base-line.  It is far more than that.


     

  • bluerooffarm
    June 25, 2013 at 2:51 PM

     Holy Hannah!  Sorry that was so long!!

  • celticdragon77
    June 25, 2013 at 2:58 PM

    Very true!

    Quoting hipmomto3:

    The only type of 'college' I'd consider a true rip-off is ITT Tech (& similar brands) that charge exorbitant fees for highly specialized training with false promises of big $ after graduation. I know several people who fell for it, and wind up with $80k in debt for an AS, and no job!

    Otherwise, college is very important IMO. You have to be smart about it. A BA in philosophy is never going to get you a job. But the best paying jobs & highest satisfaction jobs require college.


  • hipmomto3
    June 25, 2013 at 3:14 PM

    There's no guarantee that ANY college degree will get you a good job and stability and good income. But the odds are ever in your favor if you do have a degree (or two) to fall back on. My husband would not have his job without his degrees. The types of jobs available to people with NO college degree are generally low paying OR very physically demanding (or sometimes, both). There's a Toyota plant near us and lots of people work there - but at what cost? Our friend had to have both of her knees replaced at 48 years old. Another friend's husband had to have his shoulder operated on several times after five years working there. The repetitive motions wear a body out. And is there satisfaction in that? I guess for some, but for many, there needs to be a challenge, some intellectual aspect, to make a job worth doing. 


  • celticdragon77
    June 25, 2013 at 3:17 PM

    I enjoyed reading it. I like hearing various perspectives. It is an interesting topic to me. One I thought about all night at work. 

    I know I wasn't "college material". I LOVE to learn. Hell, I once learned ALL about nuclear power plants - every aspect. even down to how they operated. That was one of my more quirky interests. But I have learning disabilities and a poor memory. I would never survive in a college environment. Plus, now I am 35yrs old and too far down my chosen paths of life. 

    My oldest wants desperately to go to college. She wants to be book smart, but doesn't usually want to take the time for it. She has other priorities. She wants to go to college. I asked her why, and she said to get a good job. I asked what she wants to be, and she doesn't know. She changes her mind based on who is currently influencing her. She wants a job that will pay well and be there always. I have suggested the nursing field. She used to have an interest in the medical field - she want to be a vet or a doctor. She is also all into nutrition. It is reliable in demand work, pays decently, and she can invest how much education and work she wants to put into it.

    My younger two... Mys son, he is very bright and disciplined. He is very analytically and hands on (he gets that very strong, in both sides of his family). He is more studious at school than at home. My youngest daughter, she is very studious at home with me and struggles severely at school. She has the most willingness to learn than all three - and yet, it does not come as easy for her, as it does the other two kids.  

     

    quoting bluerooffarm

     Holy Hannah!  Sorry that was so long!!


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